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Old 10-27-2008, 10:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by milkdemcows View Post
About the Trans Fat Free Crisco, there's really a marketing ploy going on here. If you look at the ingredients, there is some hydrogenated oil (palm I think). What happens is that for a serving, there winds up being something like 0.49 grams - and the labeling standards allow the companies to round down to zero grams, to advertise it as having 0 grams.
Huh, I just assumed they completely hydrogenated the fats to make it 100% saturated fat. That's what lets you keep it unrefrigerated as opposed to home-rendered fat which contains a mix of saturated and unsaturated fats that go rancid. Trans fats are partially saturated so if Crisco is all saturated fat, then there can't be any trans fats in it.

But I guess they could still sneak in some trans fats in there, lol.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkdemcows View Post
About the Trans Fat Free Crisco, there's really a marketing ploy going on here. If you look at the ingredients, there is some hydrogenated oil (palm I think). What happens is that for a serving, there winds up being something like 0.49 grams - and the labeling standards allow the companies to round down to zero grams, to advertise it as having 0 grams.
LOL - it's the same marketing "ploy" that is going on with your 0g Trans Fat butter. If a serving size portion is less than 0.5g - like 0.4999, it can be rounded down to 0, 0.999 can be rounded down to 0.5. There is no mandate to round up. It's the way the government set up the rules.

THEY have spend so much time denigrating hydrogenated anything that people don't know the difference between something "partially" hydrogenated and something "fully" hydrogenated. And, people don't know that some things have Trans Fats naturally. The fat, milk, butter, cheese from ruminant animals (cows, sheep, goats, bison, buffalo, venison, etc. - any animal with two stomachs) contains Trans Fat.

Partially hydrogenated oil has trans fats - the structure of unsaturated fats is changed from a CIS configuration to a TRANS configuration - it is still unsaturated but acts like a saturated fat as far as prolonging shelf-life ... the body treats it differently, it raises the bad cholesterol and lowers the good (the same amount).

Fully hydrogenated fats are a little different - it converts the unsaturated fats into saturated fats, not trans fats. These are mixed with NON-hydrogenated fats to make an almost totally trans fat free product - like the new Crisco, Armour lard, etc. You wind up with something with the properties of shortening - without the trans fat.

Professional bakers use different fats/blends of fats for different reasons - flavor and melting points which affect both texture and flavor. I know one company makes a baking shortening that includes totally hydrogenated coconut oil.

I talked with someone at ConAgra this afternoon - it appears that "Armour" lard - although a mix of lard and "hydrogenated" lard - may be almost 0% trans fat since it is made from lard and fully hydrogenated flake lard. She is going to get one of their chemists to call me back so I can confirm this.

So, - unless your going to give up beef/lamb, milk, butter and cheese - don't worry about the small amount of trans fats you might get from Crisco or lard. Like you said - you don't make pies a major part of your diet. Why eat an inferior crust made with butter when it may actually contain more trans fat than using lard?

[EDIT: I left out a word - Fully hydrogenated fats are mixed with NON-hydrogenated fats.]
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:40 AM   #13
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^^See, that's what I thought about the whole "fully hyrdrogenated" thing. If they really made the effort to fully hydrogenate the fats, it would only contain *trace* amounts of trans fats that would be insignificant for anyone.
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:40 PM   #14
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I got a call this morning from a chemist at Armour and they confirmed that Armour Lard is made with fully hydrogenated lard - so any remaining trans fats from the hydrogenation process would only be in almost immeasurable trace amounts.
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:38 PM   #15
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Not to raise a dead thread, but wow, thanks for that research Michael
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:18 PM   #16
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There is a differance between trans fat and hydrogenated. Trans fat is a differant molecule configuration, the "trans" form (another example of a configuration is "cis"). These terms refer the the configuration of the atoms around the carbon atom.

Hydrogenated is the same as saturated fats and refers to the number of double bonds in the fatty acid chain. Oils are are polyunsaturated and have more than one double bond. To make an oil into something like criso it is mearly "saturated", or hyrogenated. I wish I could remember how to draw the molecule to make it clearer.

Anyhoo, generally speaking, the body can be pretty picky as to how it needs the molecule to be configured in order for it to be processes. Proteins can also be in the wrong configuration, I forget what it's called, but if it's the wrong form the body cannot metabolise it so toxins build up. A trans fat cannot get process in the normal way and the byproducts cause problems. Think of it as being "unatural" in some way.

My explanation is somewhat simplifed, mostly cause I can't remember it all, but to sum up:

Hydrogenated = solid = lard&crisco = saturated

oil = liquid = unsaturated

trans = differant configuration = toxic byproducts, build up of substances that cannot be metabolized. It's worse than saturated.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:19 AM   #17
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If a fatty acid has no double bonds - it is a saturated fat. If it has 1 double bond it is a mono-unsaturated fat. If it has 2 or more double bonds - it is a poly-unsaturated fat.

You are right that unsaturated fats are normally found in the CIS configuration - they are partially hydrogenated to convert them into a TRANS configuration - by changing their shape from a curled to a more straight shape the can "zipper" together and work like a saturated fat to prevent oxidation to increase shelf life. Although the structure has changed from CIS to TRANS - they are still unsaturated fats.

Sorry, TRANS fats also occur naturally - in the fat and milk of all ruminent animals. It isn't just some "artifically" produced thing. Somewhere between 1-5% of the fat in milk and butter is naturally occuring TRANS fat.

Now, the difference between partially hydrogenated and fully hydrogenated is that when fully hydrogenated - the unsaturated fatty acids are converted into saturated fats - not unsaturated with a shape change from CIS to TRANS.

Animal fats are solid without any hydrogination.

Liquid fats can also contain some hefty amounts of saturated fats.
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Old 12-01-2008, 05:12 PM   #18
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Try Organic Palm Oil Shortening sold at Whole Foods

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Originally Posted by milkdemcows View Post
So, when my last tub of generic Crisco was empty, I had decided not to buy it anymore, so as to avoid its trans-fats. Basically the only thing I would ever use it for was pastry crust. Instead, I figured, I'd give lard a try, having heard such great things about it for pastry, and it not having artificial trans fats. Then, looking at it in the grocery, I see that what's sold is actually hydrogenated lard, meaning it does contain trans fats.

Its not like a make a lot of pies, so I suppose its not a huge problem to just use whatever...but still. Anyone know if or where non-hydrogenated lard might be sold? Or other fats that work too (Coconut oil is the only one that comes to mind). I've made a few all-butter pie crusts, and frankly don't like the outcome, not as light and flaky, kind of tough, and not that great to work with.
Try Organic Palm Oil Shortening sold at Whole Foods. I use it with half butter, half shortning for pie crusts. You get the flavor of butter and the handling and crispiness of the shortning with NO TRANS FAT!

Some saturated fat from the butter, but the flavor is worth it!
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Old 12-06-2008, 12:16 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by sugarx2 View Post
Try Organic Palm Oil Shortening sold at Whole Foods. I use it with half butter, half shortning for pie crusts. You get the flavor of butter and the handling and crispiness of the shortning with NO TRANS FAT!

Some saturated fat from the butter, but the flavor is worth it!
Actually - each Tablespoon of butter contains about 0.4 grams of Trans Fat. For a typical pie crust with 2.5 cups flour, 1/2 cup palm oil shortening, and 1/2 cup butter - the butter adds a little over 3 grams Trans Fat!
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Old 12-06-2008, 04:18 AM   #20
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Actually - each Tablespoon of butter contains about 0.4 grams of Trans Fat. For a typical pie crust with 2.5 cups flour, 1/2 cup palm oil shortening, and 1/2 cup butter - the butter adds a little over 3 grams Trans Fat!
All I know is if it has any hydrogenated oil, ( which i read about, and it said it comes from any natural oil that is heated up to about 900 degrees and pumped full of hydrogen.) I break out in blisters in less than 20 minutes. It is more like a toxic reaction actually, than an allergy. I can eat butter with no problem whatsoever. So, perhaps the trans fat thing is confusing because the ingredients lists seem to consider trans fat and hydrogenated oils one in the same. You are saying they are not. I hope they get more specific on the labels. Zero means nothing to the blisters. Some companies still put it in the food, and have taken it off the ingredients lists, like REESE'S PEANUT BUTTER CUPS. It is still in there!!!!

So, I will correct my statement. I am unable to eat ANY hydrogenated oil, in any condition it is in. Interesting though "Fractionated oil" and "interesterified oil" doesn't seem to bother me, in that way. They are probably toxic to everyone in the long run, though. They are being substituted for hydrogenated oil. They seem to set one up for diabetes and other problems over time. Not so healthy....

I think they are trying to kill us off one way or the other!


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