Organic & Local Food Sourcing... do you care?

[ChefJune]

That is an issue I wasn't aware of at all. How expensive is it to get organic certification? I find this a bit ominous, a great way to squeeze out the small farmers. Can you point me to a site where I can read more about this?

Thanks

I don''t know about a site. Most small farmers aren't active on the internet, because the nature of their business allows them little free time. The ones I talk to, who bring their products to the Greenmarket at Union Square talk about how much their operating costs have increased in the past couple of years. Getting certified as organic is not as important to them as farming organically, which most all of them still do.

You might be able to get some information from someone in the Greenmarket organization. Here is a link to their site.

 

[cara]

Most small farmers aren't active on the internet, because the nature of their business allows them little free time.

then they do something wrong... or the US is very much different to us..
An organic farmer isn't allowed to do very much so not much need to do...

We have a freind, who is organic farmer and he has most time of all, he even webt into swine business, 'cause his fields didn't satisfy him enough...
he drills everything, drives ariound to look and sometimes there is harvest time... he's a lazy bugger

 

[Maverick2272]

I don''t know about a site. Most small farmers aren't active on the internet, because the nature of their business allows them little free time. The ones I talk to, who bring their products to the Greenmarket at Union Square talk about how much their operating costs have increased in the past couple of years. Getting certified as organic is not as important to them as farming organically, which most all of them still do.

You might be able to get some information from someone in the Greenmarket organization. Here is a link to their site.

I am with them on this one, the certificate is not as important to me either as it is that they are farming organically. I don't think any of the farmers at our local farmers markets have certificates, but I know none of them use any chemicals and that is good enough for me!

 

[MexicoKaren]

This question may work for people who live in the US, but alot of our members (me obviously included) do not. Here, I prefer to shop almost exclusively local and there are some "organic" choices available in our supermarket, but I doubt that they are local. Shopping "local" to me usually means buying it off the back of a truck that comes down our street with loudspeakers, or going to the tianguis (Sunday open-air market). I have no idea if it is organic. Probably, because the local farmers cannot afford the various fertilizers and pesticides...I only know it tastes GOOD and is very fresh and is field-ripened. How about members who live in other countries? It would be interesting to hear from you on how you do your shopping.

 

[Maverick2272]

I think sometimes we forget things don't work the same everywhere you go. Here buying produce from all over the world is normal and most never give it a second thought, but going down to the local farmers market is a 'novelty' or 'cool experience' for some of us.
In other countries, buying produce from other countries so it can be obtained out of season might be a luxury. Growing up in Iowa farmers markets were everywhere and it was normal to shop there on a regular basis. When I came out to Chicago with my wife, her and most of the people out here treated them as some cool new craze or hip thing to do. I couldn't figure out what the big deal was for them....

 

[PieSusan]

So on New Years Eve I think I really annoyed one of my neighbors.

She is one of a group trying to start a Food CoOp in the neighborhood. I was trying to find out what they were thinking of having at this place because our area is pretty poorly served foodwise... I start getting the impression that it is going to be a storefront filled with bins of scoop your own organic Quinoa... and valu size ricemilk ugh... I had had a few drinks I ran my mouth a bit think my sarcasm got to her... but seriously... organic and local is fine to a point but I want my Prosciutto people!

I really like the idea of buying local produce and local meats (they are not having meat) etc but everytime I look into one of these coops or byuing clubs they are super restrictive and the people involved are so holier than though... its just too much... it ends up turining me off to the idea. The stuff labeled organic at the supermarket is generally pricy and I am just not convinced any better.

I reald lables for additives, I try to avoid processed foods. I try to use whole grains... but some stuf needs to be imported and sometimes money is an issue... I dont shop at WholeFoods because the prices are crazy insane and the lines are long and the parking is terrible (and I am not about to bike thank you)

All the neo-urban-hippies in my neighborhood are hellbent on this local-organic-urban farming thing (they are also conspicuosly anti-deoderant)

I just dont find it sustanable lifestyle wise.

So I am curious how y'all think about these issues... do you take this into consideration when you shop?

Now, tell us how you really feel! lol

Well you asked for my two cents, here it is:

I say to each their own. I learned that I have a lot of food allergies and it is best that I eat non-processed foods and avoid certain food altogether. I am very fortunate that I live where I have a lot of food choices. I even am a member of the local food coop but I haven't gone in ages because of places like Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Fresh Market, Heinen's and The Miles Farmers Market. Plus, in the summer months, I can go down to the West Side Market and we even got a Penzey's. If some new fruit or vegetable is shown on foodtv, I can usually find it...yep, I am very fortunate indeed.

Oh, and to answer the other part of your question: yes, there are certain countries' fruits and vegetables that I will not buy because their laws when it comes to the use of pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers and manure are different than ours in the United States. As for organic, I invite you to read the regulations--you can drive a mack truck through with all the exceptions. And, Driscoll, for example, has regular strawberry fields next to organic ones. Are you going to tell me that pesticides are not going to drift over?

I will not buy meats or eggs in certain huge box stores because if you pay close attention to the listeria, salmonella etc. recalls--it usually involves those stores. They were originally meant for mom and pop restaurants and small businesses. Now, that everyone can shop there, we are seeing more of these issues in home kitchens. As my parents became elderly and I had to take over their care, I became very concerned about our food sources because my father had a compromised immune system (he had emphesema and lung cancer and heart trouble amongst other health issues) and I was very careful what I would serve him. Actually, that is a pretty good thing to do for the very young and the very old.

I think this is a very personal choice and economics plays into it. I try to buy the best that I can afford and I eat in season when things are meant to be eaten. It is better for you and cheaper to do so.

Whew, I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to go on and on but it is a subject that I do care about.

 

[mcnerd]

Organic Farm Certification & the National Organic Program

 

[ChefJune]

I dunno.... I picked up the package of frozen organic spinach I bought last weekend at Whole Foods, and looked for the place of origin... GROWN IN CHINA! Their regular frozen spinach is from California. Why can't they find a closer source for organic veggies?

I had heard about the China source, but hadn't believed it. Well.... so much for WF organic vegetables! I'll take made in USA first!

 

[CharlieD]

I don't care about organic as much as local produce.

 

[GotGarlic]

I think we would go mad trying to be all organic or all local, etc. Sometimes it is just too overwhelming and/or too expensive (Chemicals aren't free, so how come I have to pay MORE for them to NOT to add another expense in??).

Because there's a lot more produce lost to pests when pesticides aren't used. Also for this reason, organic farmers generally have to farm more land in order to raise the same amount of food as a non-organic farmer - more land = more property taxes + more time needed to farm it. And, food grown without fertilizers grows more slowly, which means it costs more. That's why colored peppers cost so much more than green peppers - it's compensation for the time the farmer has to spend continuing to raise them before harvesting them.

Instead, we concentrate on a mixture of things, and just work them in so it is easy to do and doesn't require much thought. We conserve gas as much as we can, utilize public transportation when it works out well to do so, use green bags most times, shop local farmers markets as much as possible, buy recycled and green when it presents itself as a not anymore expensive solution, and keep our own veggie and herb gardens as well as compost.
I think it has more impact if a lot of people did just a few little things each then a few people doing a lot of things.

We do this, too. I use canvas bags for shopping, I have a hybrid car, and I buy some organic items, but it's not as important to me as getting a variety of fresh foods. And the trade-off is not always as obvious as people may think:

• Is organic food really worth the extra cost? — Science in Society
• Is local food really miles better? | Salon Life
• Do We Really Need a Few Billion Locavores? - Freakonomics Blog - NYTimes.com

 

[Maverick2272]

Well I don't know about your neck of the woods, but where I grew up (Iowa) the farmers had to use fertilizer not because it made the crops grow faster but because the organic content in the soil was so low they wouldn't grow without the fertilizer.
And of course I still hold that the fewer chemicals in and on my food, the better off I am for it. But getting obsessed over it is no way to go, either. Too much of a good thing, can become a bad thing. And driving yourself and those around you mad over it isn't going to help anyone either. Seriously, I have met some like that.... scary LOL!

 

[PieSusan]

It is my understanding after reading the regulations after the 1990 organic food law was enacted that there are great big exceptions when organic farmers can use nonorganic products such as pesticides and the like. If this has changed since 1990, I would love someone to point it out in the federal rules and regulations for me.

It is why I have always been a bit cynical about organic foods.

However, I do like to buy local and do so. We have a lot of farmer markets around when the weather is nice. I also try to eat in season. I think that is very important.

 

[Maverick2272]

Even if the farmer doesn't use any chemicals at all, you still have to ask where the water comes from. I remember even by the mid to late 80's they had to start treating all of our wells for chemicals because it had gotten to the point that they had saturated the ground and well water for the entire Northwest section of Iowa.
So, even if the farmer didn't use chemicals, he would still have to use only treated well water instead of the usual direct well water or he would still be dumping chemicals on his crops.
Something to think about, even if the use of chemicals doesn't bother you that much or at all, don't forget the environmental impact. What good are fast growing pest free crops if you have no water to drink??

 

[Erinny]

I had to vote organic/local, because I grow my own and they are both. My Dad is a farmer, so I would consider him both organic and local. He doesn't use chemicals on his produce and he and my Mom always give us stuff from their farm. I don't use chemicals eighter.

Edit - Yes, I care. I think it's important to consider what is going into our bodies, but I choose to care that way. I think it's a personal choice, and no one will die younger than I will because they ate veggies that were treated with chemicals.
That is if they are careful to wash those real well. Even so at cooking temps as high as they are, I don't see a problem with any of them.

 

[bethzaring]

dh and I may be over the top of these issues. I feel very strongly about wanting to only consume local, organic food stuffs, as much as possible. We eat about 98% of organic fruits and vegetables we raise ourselves. 95% of our dairy consumption is our own product, but it is not organic, we buy commercially raised oats and sunflower seeds. Likewise, our meat can not be considered organic, the kids are milk fed and the hay is organic. So we pretty much produce all our meat, dairy, fruits and vegetables.
Because so much of our diet is produced by us, I have no problem buying a 3L tin of olive oil from Spain, or vanilla beans from Madagascar, or any of the other essential ingredients I want to cook with. Even though I want to eat all organic, I do not practice what I preach. I bake all our breads, rolls, pancakes, cookies, brownies, etc, but the flour I buy, King Arthur Traditional Whole Wheat, is not organic. And bread products make up a large part of our diet.

So, yes, I care, and am willing to do an incredible amount of work to achieve this goal of mine, to eat local and organic.

 

[Bigjim68]

I try to buy locally whenever possible. Mostly fof the quality. However, buying only locally would mean no bananas, coffee, oranges, no fruits or vegetables at all in the winter. Very few decent steaks Even at the farmers markets and stands here, produce starts to come in a few weeks earlier and later than the harvest in Richmond. Starts in Florida and ends in the northeast. I don't know what the criteria for organic labelling is, but I doubt if all foreign organic food products meet any criteria.

 

[cara]

I dunno.... I picked up the package of frozen organic spinach I bought last weekend at Whole Foods, and looked for the place of origin... GROWN IN CHINA! Their regular frozen spinach is from California. Why can't they find a closer source for organic veggies?

I had heard about the China source, but hadn't believed it. Well.... so much for WF organic vegetables! I'll take made in USA first!

now my big question:
is it still that good for the world, atmosphere and everyting if it was shipped once around the earth?
Wouldn't it be better to buy something local conventional food?

I'm not sure about how it works in the US, but here in G organic farmers are allowed to use organic fertilizers like dung or slurry.

 

[Elo]

We tend to eat what's in season so the vast majority of our produce is British, produced without chemicals and/or free range and as much as possible is produced locally. Yes, I think it matters.

Of course, I make exception for things that just cannot be reasonably produced in the UK like tropical fruits and the like but again, you can generally find fair trade suppliers for those kinds of things if you want to.

 

[Fearless Kitchen]

I'm less concerned about environmental impact/organic/local etc than I am about quality. I grew up in a very urban environment, but if you went five minutes outside that very urban environment you were on a farm. That meant a very high quality of produce and meat that was probably very local, although we didn't really think about it at the time.

Then I moved to Boston. The quality of produce and meat available at most of the mainstream markets around here is abyssmal. I have to shop at Whole Foods just to get meat with some kind of taste that isn't rancid and produce that isn't rotting on the shelves. If I can get local food I will, and having finally discovered a good farmer's market during the growing season I use it as much as possible.

So for me it's definitely a quality issue, not a lifestyle issue. Locally grown food is likely to be significantly fresher, so it's naturally going to be higher quality than something flown around the world and held up in customs for three weeks. But I live in New England. To eat seasonally and locally would essentially involve either no vegetables between december and June, or a whole lot of freezing, which my freezer can't really accomodate. If I lived somewhere with a longer growing season and more local growers, I might be a little better about it.