potatoes

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that enjoys cooking.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Glad to hear it.

Welcome to DC. Stick around, it's lots of fun and very informative.

Just be aware, we can be rather, um, peculiar, at times.:LOL:

But for all the wisecracks, and silliness that sometimes goes on, there are some very, very good cooks around here. There have even been some professional chefs. Some of the amateurs are exceptional as well. There are a few of us that can even go so far as to say that we can successfully boil water, on a consistent basis (those who can live in the North. Those who can't, live everywhere else):ROFLMAO:

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 
They were sick from food poisoning - aka dysentery and flux - fairly often.

Up here in da U.P., that only happened in the warmth of late spring and summer. Other than that, we just used the big, outdoor fridge/freezer. It's -15 degrees F. outside this morning:ohmy:. We need a smilie that has on a snow-covered chuke, and is shivering.

It warmed to close to 30 for Christmas. Other than that, December, and January temps have been hovering at or below 0 pretty regularly. to paraphase a famous movie line, We don't need no stinking refrigerator.:LOL:

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 
What did people do in the "olden days" before fridges were invented? :LOL:

They did the best they could.

In my part of the world holding a bowl of potatoes from dinner over for breakfast was a pretty common occurrence. They would have kept them as cool as possible and in the days before central heating the whole house was pretty much a refrigerator, more than half of the year.

IMO 20 minutes in a pan of hot bacon grease will take care of most any garden variety bacteria and the rest will help you improve your speed with the 50 yard dash! :ermm::ohmy::LOL:

The bottom line is use common sense and don't eat anything that you are not comfortable with, it ain't worth the worry.
 
IMO 20 minutes in a pan of hot bacon grease will take care of most any garden variety bacteria and the rest will help you improve your speed with the 50 yard dash! :ermm::ohmy::LOL:

The thing to remember is that the bacteria itself is not usually what you have to worry about. With some of them, as they multiply, they excrete a toxin that cannot be destroyed by cooking. That's what makes people sick.
 
The thing to remember is that the bacteria itself is not usually what you have to worry about. With some of them, as they multiply, they excrete a toxin that cannot be destroyed by cooking. That's what makes people sick.

Exactly.

Reheating doesn't necessarily make food safe to eat.
 
In places that have springs or creeks, they used to use a spring house. There would be shelves inside, mostly under the water. If you put stuff in a crock or jar and it was partially submerged, it would stay at the temperature of the spring.


middleton+054.JPG


When I lived in a log cabin, there was an old, wooden spring house over a spring near the cabin. It was too tumble down to use. Not this one, it just looks similar, but in much better shape. We had a fridge.


Walker-springhouse-gsmnp-tn1.jpg


You could also lower a crock or jar into the well.

Spring house - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
The thing to remember is that the bacteria itself is not usually what you have to worry about. With some of them, as they multiply, they excrete a toxin that cannot be destroyed by cooking. That's what makes people sick.

I'd be curious to know the source(s)of this information. as you know, the Forum management insists on the promulgation of only good information, and the above statement disagrees with pretty much everything from the food science world I've read in the last 20-30 years.
 
It depends an the germs that grow. But most food-borne diseases are some kind of toxic, like ehec/vtec, Salmonella or Campylobacter.
It's the toxin that makes you sick, believe me ;o)
but sometimes that toxin, which is mostly protein-based, also denatures when heated.
 
>>but sometimes that toxin, which is mostly protein-based, also denatures when heated.

can anyone name an organic toxin that does not denature when heated?
 
I'd be curious to know the source(s)of this information. as you know, the Forum management insists on the promulgation of only good information, and the above statement disagrees with pretty much everything from the food science world I've read in the last 20-30 years.
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/training/videos/transcripts/foodborne.pdf
Page 3
"Staphylococcus aureus. While this bacteria produces a toxin that is heat stable, it is not a fatal toxin."

Food Poisoning (Foodborne Illness) causes, symptoms, microorganisms which affect foods; Information from UNL Extension
"Diseases which result from pathogenic microorganisms are of two types: infection and intoxication.


  • Foodborne infection is caused by the ingestion of food containing live bacteria which grow and establish themselves in the human intestinal tract.
  • Foodborne intoxication is caused by ingesting food containing toxins formed by bacteria which resulted from the bacterial growth in the food item. The live microorganism does not have to be consumed."
 
a "heat stable" toxin survives 140'F

the staphylococcal enterotoxin is killed less than 212'F/100'C
 
From Bacterial food-borne illness at the Colorado State University Extension Service:

Staphylococcal Intoxication

Staphylococcus bacteria are found on the skin and in the nose and throat of most people; people with colds and sinus infections are often carriers. Infected wounds, pimples, boils and acne are generally rich sources. Staphylococcus also are widespread in untreated water, raw milk and sewage.

When Staphylococcus bacteria get into warm food and multiply, they produce a toxin or poison that causes illness. The toxin is not detectable by taste or smell. While the bacteria itself can be killed by temperatures of 120 F, its toxin is heat resistant; therefore, it is important to keep the staph organism from growing.

Foods commonly involved in staphylococcal intoxication include protein foods such as ham, processed meats, tuna, chicken, sandwich fillings, cream fillings, potato and meat salads, custards, milk products and creamed potatoes. Foods that are handled frequently during preparation are prime targets for staphylococci contamination.
 
Last edited:
a "heat stable" toxin survives 140'F

the staphylococcal enterotoxin is killed less than 212'F/100'C
Really? Page 6 of this document http://www.cdc.gov/biosafety/publications/bmbl5/BMBL5_appendixI.pdf from the CDC,

Table 1.
Physical Inactivation of Selected Toxins

About Staphylococcal enterotoxin for 10 minutes of dry heat >100°C:

"Inactivation may not be complete depending upon the extent of toxin re-folding after denaturation. Biological activity of SE can be retained despite heat and pressure treatment routinely used in canned food product processing."
 
interesting article(s) - it is "newer" research/reporting than most/all(?) of the conflicting info.

reading the foot notes and references, there's a lot of "may dos" and "might nots" - for example

foot note f:
Inactivation may not be complete depending upon the extent of toxin re-folding after denaturation.
Biological activity of SE can be retained despite heat and pressure treatment routinely used in canned
food product processing.14

now,,,, does the >100'C refer to killing the re-fold effect or the toxin proper....

refers to reference 14:
14. Bennett R, Berry M. Serological reactivity and in vivo toxicity of Staphylococcus aureus
enterotoxin A and D in select canned foods. J Food Sci. 1987;52:416-8.

note that this is from 1987 - one would think if the mights and mays are major threats something would be happening in "canned foods" methods.

with advancing science I wonder if it's perhaps the same effect as the "no carcinogens" food purity act. were that rigorously enforced at the parts per billion level, about half the stuff in the supermarket would be gone.
 
Back
Top Bottom