Red vinegar and lead

[watermelonman]

Why does the red vinegar shelf at the store have a lead warning? How much lead are they talking about here? Should I be concerned?

 

[Andy M.]

Either that or buy a different brand of red wine vinegar. The bottle I have on the shelf has no such warning.

Cider, when naturally fermented into vinegar can create a lead compound naturally. I don't know if that also occurs with red wine vinegar. I'd guess you'd have to consume a lot of vinegar for it to make a difference.

 

[watermelonman]

Well, it's pretty pervasive. I don't think I've ever seen a store shelf without this warning. Apparently Proposition 65 in California is more strict than other legislature on the topic.

 

[Andy M.]

I don't have an issue with the warning. I don;t believe it applies to all vinegars. What is the wording of the warning on the shelf?

 

[Uncle Bob]

I didn't know this...thanks for posting it.

 

[YT2095]

erm... I gotta ask, are we talking lead as in Pb element #82 here?

if so, Where does that come from??? it Has to be a contaminant from the process, elements DO NOT change from one to the other in a chem reaction of ANY sort unless it`s an Isotope (and I think that`s unlikely!).

 

[kitchenelf]

erm... I gotta ask, are we talking lead as in Pb element #82 here?

if so, Where does that come from??? it Has to be a contaminant from the process, elements DO NOT change from one to the other in a chem reaction of ANY sort unless it`s an Isotope (and I think that`s unlikely!).

YT - the little time I did take to search this out seems to indicate that it is, indeed, the vessel used in the making of the vinegar. I could be wrong but that's what it looked like to me. Which to me would mean standing there and reading bottles until I found one without a warning. I have never seen such a warning before but I will be looking when I go to the grocery store today.

 

[YT2095]

Thanks

although you`de think we would have learned something since the days of the Romans that Sugar of Lead is (although tasty) Quite toxic also!

oh dear

 

[Uncle Bob]

Are we talking ALL red wine vinegar or a specific label(s)???

 

[kitchenelf]

YT - ................

Well UB - that is the problem. I don't know and that can be a problem when posting something like this too. We need a bit more information. I would think it would be with certain labels who process their vinegar in certain vessels. I would assume they have to put this warning on their bottles?

 

[Andy M.]

I found the following at this site:


Cider vinegar. The cider is placed in barrels (with their bung holes open) which are exposed during the summer to the heat of the sun. The acetification is completed in the course of about two years. The process of the fermentation, however, must be watched, and as soon as perfect vinegar is formed, it should be racked off into clean barrels. Without this precaution, the acetous fermentation would run into, the putrefactive, and the vinegar spoil. Cider vinegar contains no aldehyde. It contains malic acid, and therefore yields a precipitate with lead acetate. The absence of such a precipitate indicates that the alleged cider vinegar is a manufactured substitute, although a fictitious article might yield a similar precipitate.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Well UB - that is the problem. I don't know and that can be a problem when posting something like this too. We need a bit more information. I would think it would be with certain labels who process their vinegar in certain vessels. I would assume they have to put this warning on their bottles?

__________________

Well, Miss Elf lets put the challenge out to all DC'ers. Just what are the facts ya'll?? First one gets a prize. A bottle of vinegar!

 

[auntdot]

I am bewildered. YT is of couurse correct, a chemical element is not altered during a chemical reaction.

Vinegar is of course acidic and could easily leach out lead from any vessel it was made in, but I cannot imagine anyone using a vessel with lead in it.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Lawsuit warns of lead in balsamic vinegars / Group claims manufacturing process adds metal

Should we follow the Scientific route or the Money route?

 

[watermelonman]

YT - ................

Well UB - that is the problem. I don't know and that can be a problem when posting something like this too. We need a bit more information. I would think it would be with certain labels who process their vinegar in certain vessels. I would assume they have to put this warning on their bottles?

Like I said, the warning is posted on the shelf, not the bottles. It is not attributed to a particular company or product.

I see it in all stores in California. I do not know about other states.

 

[keltin]

Is this the sign that you see?

 

[keltin]

I found the following at this site:


Cider vinegar. The cider is placed in barrels (with their bung holes open) which are exposed during the summer to the heat of the sun. The acetification is completed in the course of about two years. The process of the fermentation, however, must be watched, and as soon as perfect vinegar is formed, it should be racked off into clean barrels. Without this precaution, the acetous fermentation would run into, the putrefactive, and the vinegar spoil. Cider vinegar contains no aldehyde. It contains malic acid, and therefore yields a precipitate with lead acetate. The absence of such a precipitate indicates that the alleged cider vinegar is a manufactured substitute, although a fictitious article might yield a similar precipitate.

I just found that site too!

It also says this further down:

Distilled Vinegar (Aceturn Destillatum; Vinaigre distille, Oxeolat simple, Fr.; Destillirter Essig, G.) was official in the U. S. Pharmacopoeia, 1870, and was prepared by obtaining seven pints of distillate from eight pints of vinegar placed in a glass retort, the one pint left in the retort retaining the fixed impurities, salts, etc. One hundred grains should saturate not less than seven and six-tenths grains of potassium bicarbonate. The principal foreign substances which vinegar is liable to contain are sulphuric and sulphurous acids, and copper and lead, derived from improper vessels used in its manufacture. Tin has been found in it after standing a short time in tin vessels. The testing of vinegar for genuineness and purity involves so many complex factors that a work on food analysis, such as that of Leach, should be consulted.

It seems it is the vessel that is to blame. Vinegar that has been aged in a barrel or some other suitable container would not have lead in it. So, it is definitely a problem with the brand of vinegar and not all vinegars. I checked both my red wine and balsamic and neither contain lead.

 

[Andy M.]

...It seems it is the vessel that is to blame. Vinegar that has been aged in a barrel or some other suitable container would not have lead in it...

Keltin, if you go back and read the section I posted, they discuss cider vinegar in barrels and that the precipitation of a lead compound as a natural process because of the presence of malic acid...

 

[keltin]

Keltin, if you go back and read the section I posted, they discuss cider vinegar in barrels and that the precipitation of a lead compound as a natural process because of the presence of malic acid...

But that doesn’t make any sense. Malic acid is just fruit acid. Lead acetate is formed by treating lead monoxide with acetic acid. A precipitate (a solid produced during a chemical reaction) of lead acetate means that lead monoxide was exposed to acid. Malic acid can’t just turn into lead acetate. Lead must be present and exposed to acid. So I’m not understanding what that article is implying……are they saying lead monoxide was present in the barrels to begin with? This, of course, shows again that it is the container that is the culprit.

 

[Andy M.]

Why would lead in any form be present in wood barrels? Or metal ones for that matter. US and other countries' food manufacturers have been lead free for decades.