San Marzano vs San Marzano?

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I can quite understand why people opt for 'San Marzano' tomatoes on there own. If I were and had a suitable piece of land, I'd get the 'San Marzano' seeds and grow them myself, then make my own tomato purèe! I'm sure that the soils of the USA are equally up to producing good stuff!

Roma tomatoes for commercial sale are widely grown in Florida, southern California and other states across the Southern United States. We grew some in our backyard garden a few years ago and I still have tomato paste left that I made from some of them. They were absolutely delicious.

So yes, I agree with you that yummy paste tomatoes can be grown in places other than San Marzano, Italy, and you've explained perfectly why so many companies here use misleading labels - it's all marketing hype. The TV chefs created a market for these by talking about them all the time, but there's no way to keep up with the demand. Therefore, there are knock-offs, just like with any other high-demand, high-cost item.
 
I use Hunts Fire Roasted diced tomatoes almost exclusively, and they are universally available.

I don't shop around for canned tomatoes - except for the Hunts, they all taste the same to me. Not worth paying a premium for minor differences. Any recipe calling for diced tomatoes gets the Hunts.

I confess that I'm not a big canned tomato user. I always have the Hunts in the pantry because they are handy when I just want to throw some things together for an easy one skillet meal, but I don't do a lot of tomato sauced dishes. I probably use them more for the Minnesota style chili con carne that I learned at my mother's knee than for anything else.
 
Stick to decent American produce guys, and don't let market advertising get in the way. What you should look for is a plum tomato (for sauces), a cherry tomato (where the cherry tomato is the dominant part of a dish), and look for a good US brand. After all, tomatoes came from your side of the world and you should be able to get hold of some pretty good stuff. Too often we get entwined with 'quality' and 'price'. What the dickens does that mean, when American produce is very good! (P.S. I have to go buy American produce over here if I want American stuff for a start and the prices are high - and yes, your guys are still over here in Italy, doing a good job - did you know that?) I've never been let down with the stuff I bought from them. It's good.

di reston

Enoughis never as good as a feast Oscar Wilde
 
The European Union has internal regulations that stipulate how and where certain products must be produced to be considered "authentic" and be allowed to put DOP on the label. The United States does not require adherence to these standards, so what's sold here with certain names can be misleading.

Aw, aren't you sweet? ;)

I haven't said anything because whether or not a tomato product contains Italian San Marzano tomatoes is not important to me. I buy whatever is on sale.

The acidity of tomatoes is determined by the variety and the growing conditions, including length of daylight hours and cloudiness during the season. The acids and sugars in the fruit are developed by photosynthesis, so the more sun they get, the more flavor they will have. Since sweeter tomatoes have more natural sugars (fructose and glucose) than acids in them, I don't have a problem with adding a pinch of sugar if I think it needs it. Usually, though, browning onions for the sauce releases enough sugar to create a good balance.

More info here: https://hort.purdue.edu/prod_quality/commodities/tomato.html

RB, it might be fun to set up a double-blind taste test to see what you think when you don't know what you're eating. Epicurious had a surprising result when they did that: https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/best-canned-tomatoes-san-marzano-italian-taste-test-article

Thanks GG!

Living in Italy - which is not to boast - I've never noticed the difference between canned San Marzano tomatoes, or any other canned toms unless they're canned on the cheap. For a while some time ago, on British television they doing Hail Mary's for virtues of San Marzano tomatoes, and it was them or nothing. Curiously, now, they seem to have disappeared off the horizon. Then there were the articles about how the housewives of Naples concentrated their fresh San Marzano hand harvested and reduced to a concentrate on the balconies of Naples.To me that's just snobbery.
I have to say, that there is a vast difference between the flavour of fresh harvested of ALL tomatoes, Tomato Roma included, and the canned the varieties of the same. If I lived over in the US, I would go for, any time, home produced toms that do the job just as well at half (or more) the price.

di reston
Enough is never as good as a feast Oscar Wilde

I like using canned tomatoes for sauces. Prefer canned.

I use Hunts Fire Roasted diced tomatoes almost exclusively, and they are universally available.

I don't shop around for canned tomatoes - except for the Hunts, they all taste the same to me. Not worth paying a premium for minor differences. Any recipe calling for diced tomatoes gets the Hunts.

I confess that I'm not a big canned tomato user. I always have the Hunts in the pantry because they are handy when I just want to throw some things together for an easy one skillet meal, but I don't do a lot of tomato sauced dishes. I probably use them more for the Minnesota style chili con carne that I learned at my mother's knee than for anything else.

Costco sells the Nina 3 pack 28 oz can for around $4. Just over a dollar a can for tomatoes that are far superior to whats available from the big names.

I encourage you to try one can and tell me they compare to Hunts or any other big name.
The Nina are far superior in appearance and taste. Check for yourself. You will see the minute you open the can.
 
What originally made a real San Marzano tomato better is the volcanic soil that the plants grow in, near the base of Mount Vesuvius.

Today, the seeds of the San Marzano tomato are grown in other places, but to be called a San Marzano tomato, it has to come from that particular region, much like Champagne must come from the Champagne region of France, or it is not real Champagne.

The D.O.P on the label is the only way you know if a can of tomatoes is truly San Marzano tomatoes. Similar products will be labeled "San Marzano Style," or something like that.

CD

That's the best way to tell if it's the real thing. Good reply. Some brands are grown in California and the say San Marzano too! they are good but not the best because of soil content.
 
The San Marzano DOP variety of tomatoes is expensive over here, plus, it's cultivated in the officialy designated grounds that define San Marzano. There is'nt enough of the stuff to supply the whole world, let alone Italy! The San Marzano type of tomato, is widely cultivated, although they have the designated title 'San Marzan'. The San Marzano DOP tomatoes are cultivated on the slopes of Vesuvius, and the San Marzano tomatoes are cultivated widely around that area - in Italy. The myth of the San Marzano DOP tomato is further amplified by the practise by the housewives of Naples, who are known to reduce their home-made 'polpa', or sauce, down to a purèe, on the balconies of their dwellings in Naples, and on the roadsides of the more agricultural areas. It is very expensive!
I can quite understand why people opt for 'San Marzano' tomatoes on there own. If I were and had a suitable piece of land, I'd get the 'San Marzano' seeds and grow them myself, then make my own tomato purèe! I'm sure that the soils of the USA are equally up to producing good stuff!

di reston

Eneough is never as good as a feast Oscar Wilde

The problem here is with big corporate farming. Those companies are focused on low costs and high volumes. Tomatoes, in particular, are often grown where the climate is optimal for high volume production for most of the year, and the soil isn't all that important. An abundance of cheap labor is a priority, too.

I wish I could grow my own tomatoes at home, but it isn't practical given my occupation. Tomatoes need attention and I travel a lot.

Fresh tomatoes at the grocery store here have very little taste. I can only speak for Texas, but I imagine others here find the same bland tomatoes in their local stores.

CD
 
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Today's supermarket tomatoes have been bred to last a long time and be resistant to bruising. Taste is not a factor in modern corporate tomato farming. This is why I almost always cook with canned tomatoes.
 
One advantage to home gardening, is that you can fortify the soil with aged manure and compost, changing the nutrients available to the tomatoes, if you grow them. We grow san marzano (seed) and they are fabulous here, especially with lots of water and sunshine. We also grow roma tomatoes, they are fabulous as well.

You can change the acidity of the tomatoes (if you want for safety reasons) with citric acid, lemon juice, or vinegar, and you can balance flavor with salt, when canning. Then when cooking, again you can balance flavors (not that I'd need to) with the addition of honey or sugar and or salt.

To concentrate the tomato and the flavor, you can do long cooking and that does seem to make them taste more acidic. You can get rid of some of the acidity with a pinch of baking soda. You can dip off clear liquid leaving only the paste/flesh to concentrate it further. You can use a sieve to drain off some of the liquid (which we like to drink!) concentrating them further before canning or cooking.

So to me, the home canner and cook, I can manipulate them if needed so they turn out how I want them. I'm sure the canning industry has all of these tricks available to them as well as laboratories for even more tricks to keep the ph where they want it and the sweetness where they want it to please the consumer's taste buds. I don't fool myself and believe for one minute that they aren't using all their tricks to give the consumer what they want. (often I find these industrial canned goods, too sweet and for soups, too salty) That's how they make money (neither good nor bad).

I've probably planted tomatoes, all kinds, for 30 years or so. I plant the san marzano and the roma because they give ME my best product. My tomatoes are heirloom, they often suffer from wilts, early or late, and that is just what happens, depending on the weather. Still those two tomatoes have been amazing producers with a thick flesh, small gel/seed locules, and delicious taste. They'd never be industrial grown, they are too much trouble for acres of farm fields! ha ha. But, they are the best, to me.
 
Difficult to determine if any can, regardless of label, could be a fraud. I buy Pastene, not a nation brand. Their SM tomato cans have all kinds of stamps, seals and serial numbers. They taste great and cost almost $5.00 a can. I have no idea if they're legit.

They also have a 'San Marzano Style' tomato that's much cheaper and still tastes great.

My advice. Buy a tomato that tastes good and don't worry about the labels.

I look for a canned whole tomato that's not super acidic. When making a tomato sauce I always add tomato paste and sauté it so it's natural sweetness offsets the acidity of the tomato. I refuse to add sugar to tomato sauce.

I am absolutely with you about not adding sugar to tomato sauce. I too add tomato paste to my sauce to sweeten in, though I like my sauce with a little acidity. I use De Fratelli tomat puree. I really like the flavor of that brand.
For the Op, There are places in the U.S. where the soil is the result of volcanoes. The west coast is part of the Pacific fire ring. Also, I imagine that the kind of volcano is important. Different volcanoes produce different soil types. I agree with di-reston, who is quite a knowledgeable cook, that one should find a tomato product they like, and use it. Don't worry about the latest fad.

Seeeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 
Curious. If I'm not mistaken, most people here have no problem adjusting the flavor of a dish with salt or an acid like citrus juice or vinegar. What is the objection to adjusting the flavor of tomato sauce with sugar if you find it too acidic?
 
Today's supermarket tomatoes have been bred to last a long time and be resistant to bruising. Taste is not a factor in modern corporate tomato farming. This is why I almost always cook with canned tomatoes.


When I buy tomatoes from the supermarket I keep them out of the fridge on the window sill for a few days until they become ripe. I usually have a few on the go in different stages of ripeness..
 
I too, like Andy am a Pastene fan. It does say on the can that they are imported from Italy in in the San Marzano area. I am one of those folks who will purchase a case, but only when on sale. My mother used them, I use them and so does my daughter. She stocks up like I do, but only when on sale. If I used up my last can the last time we had pasta and Pastene is not on sale, oh well. No pasta this week. Unless you are willing to settle on just butter and a little garlic.

I prefer to purchase the crushed. But if the whole tomato is what is on sale, then a quick whiz in the blender takes care of that problem. When I am buying whole tomatoes, as for a sandwich, then I always buy the Roma. It is fleshier that the regular tomatoes. And they have better flavor. Why would I spend my money of tasteless food. In this part of Boston, if they could, every Italian, imported or natural born, prefers to have their whole life labeled, "Made in Italy." We have a meat shop down on Meridian Street. It is family owned and has been in business since the early 1930's. They are mostly meat cutters, but make great subs, and with a quick guess, I would say about 90% of the dry goods on their shelves comes from Italy. Can goods, packaged pasta, anchovies, tomatoes, etc. And the tomatoes have to be Pastene. It is the only brand they will carry.
 
Curious. If I'm not mistaken, most people here have no problem adjusting the flavor of a dish with salt or an acid like citrus juice or vinegar. What is the objection to adjusting the flavor of tomato sauce with sugar if you find it too acidic?

Added sugar is the biggest reason Americans are saddled with so much obesity and type 2 diabetes. Too much sodium is not helping us, either. So, if I can cook my own food without added sugar or too much salt, I can eat good food that is also good for me.

When we eat foods like fresh fruits, we are consuming sugars, but we are also getting nutrients and fiber that is beneficial to us. Sugar cane and HFCS provides nothing but sweetness. They have no nutritional value.

If I use good tomatoes (a fruit), I don't need to add sugar.

CD
 
Added sugar is the biggest reason Americans are saddled with so much obesity and type 2 diabetes. Too much sodium is not helping us, either. So, if I can cook my own food without added sugar or too much salt, I can eat good food that is also good for me.

When we eat foods like fresh fruits, we are consuming sugars, but we are also getting nutrients and fiber that is beneficial to us. Sugar cane and HFCS provides nothing but sweetness. They have no nutritional value.

If I use good tomatoes (a fruit), I don't need to add sugar.

A teaspoon of sugar used to balance flavor in a pot of sauce doesn't count as "added sugar."

"The leading sources of added sugars in the U.S. diet are sugar-sweetened beverages, grain-based desserts like cakes and cookies, candy, and dairy desserts like ice cream. Reducing the amount of sugary drinks and sugary foods each day and replacing these with plain water and fruit might be a good way to reduce added sugars intake."
https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/data-statistics/know-your-limit-for-added-sugars.html

Don't be condescending, Casey. I know about the benefits of whole fruits. And HFCS is not a household ingredient, so that's not relevant.

Good tomatoes can be sweet, acidic or in between. You can't tell from looking at them how sweet they are and we're not talking about fresh whole tomatoes anyway. We're talking about homemade tomato sauce - a combination of ingredients that may need balancing to achieve the desired flavor.
 
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A teaspoon of sugar used to balance flavor in a pot of sauce doesn't count as "added sugar."

"The leading sources of added sugars in the U.S. diet are sugar-sweetened beverages, grain-based desserts like cakes and cookies, candy, and dairy desserts like ice cream. Reducing the amount of sugary drinks and sugary foods each day and replacing these with plain water and fruit might be a good way to reduce added sugars intake."
https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/data-statistics/know-your-limit-for-added-sugars.html

Don't be condescending, Casey. I know about the benefits of whole fruits. And HFCS is not a household ingredient, so that's not relevant.

Good tomatoes can be sweet, acidic or in between. You can't tell from looking at them how sweet they are and we're not talking about fresh whole tomatoes anyway. We're talking about homemade tomato sauce - a combination of ingredients that may need balancing to achieve the desired flavor.

I don't know why you have to make everything a fight. I wasn't being "condescending," I just answered the question that you asked. I told you honestly what my "objection to adjusting the flavor of tomato sauce with sugar" is.

If you add sugar to something, it is "added sugar." A little added sugar here, a little there -- it adds up. I choose not to add that sugar to my sauce, or anything else that doesn't need added sugar, which is most of the foods that I eat.

CD
 
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Although my MIL's recipe for slow-simmer spaghetti sauce said to cook it for at least four hours, she included a Tbsp of sugar to the ingredients list she gave to Himself so he could make it at college. Why include the sugar? Because that wise woman knew that college-age boys could not wait for it to simmer long enough for it to lose its acidic taste. She was right - they would finish the pot up before two hours were gone! I use her recipe (with a few, tiny modifications) but omit the sugar. Instead, I simmer the sauce for at least six hours - usually closer to eight, though. By cooking it for that long, there isn't even a hint of acid. It may seem like overkill, but I do make quarts and quarts of it at a time, so to me it's worth it.
 
This discussion reminds me that I have a can of Del Monte stewed tomatoes on the shelf that I've been meaning to use.

You can make a really good green bean dish with them or a fast and easy hot dog dish. Cooked with some onion, garlic and hot sauce they make a fine hot dog topping. You can tell stewed tomatoes were part of the learning curve during my trial and error days of learning to cook. I still make those recipes from time to time.
 
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I don't know why you have to make everything a fight. I wasn't being "condescending," I just answered the question that you asked. I told you honestly what my "objection to adjusting the flavor of tomato sauce with sugar" is.

Sorry but it did come across that way.

If you add sugar to something, it is "added sugar." A little added sugar here, a little there -- it adds up. I choose not to add that sugar to my sauce, or anything else that doesn't need added sugar, which is most of the foods that I eat.

It's been well established that most of the added sugar (and extra sodium) people eat are from prepared and processed foods, not homemade foods. If you add a little sugar to your tomato sauce, you're still getting the benefits of the tomatoes and other ingredients in the sauce. It's not like eating a cupcake.

Thanks for the response. I'd like to hear from the others who said the same thing.
 
I was under the impression the sugar was added because of the tomato paste?
I added a pinch in my gallon of marinara I made on Saturday.
I thought the sauce was quite sweet. Did not need the sugar at all.
I use two small cans of paste with about a pint (more if needed) of water along with the gallon can of crushed tomatoes.
Next time I will wait until its almost done before adding any sugar.
Its still a great sauce.
 
The canned tomatoes can be acidic. That's what people add the sugar for.

I add a can (3 oz.) of tomato paste to a 28 Oz.can of tomato. After sautéing the aromatics, I add the paste and sauté that too. This brings out the natural sweetness in the paste and helps to counteract the acidity of the tomato.
 

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