The Great Pepper Debate

[Sagittarius]

@ Larry,

Stuffed peppers date back centuries in: India, Egypt, Greece, The Basque Country, The Baltic Countries, and on the North American side of the Atlantic: Mexico, Guatemala, & The USA.

It is a fusión of Greek American, Turkish Ameican and can be converted or renovated into Italian American by the other ingredients and the stuffing / sauce used in the soup and the peppers.

I have travelled through almost all of Italia and stuffed peppers are really only common in Basilicata and Calabria but they are not Bell Peppers. They are chili peppers.

In Italy France and Spain, normally chili peppers ( Esplette is one famous one in The Basque Country of France and Spain ) are sautéed and served as an appetiser or Tapa ..

Interesting ! The Chef / Owner probably wanted to use up the excess peppers they had and the Chef invented this soup you had ..

Have a wonderful July 4th.

 

[GotGarlic]

@ Larry,

Stuffed peppers date back centuries in: India, Egypt, Greece, The Basque Country, The Baltic Countries, and on the North American side of the Atlantic: Mexico, Guatemala, & The USA.

It is a fusión of Greek American, Turkish Ameican and can be converted or renovated into Italian American by the other ingredients and the stuffing / sauce used in the soup and the peppers.

It would most likely have originated in Central and South America, since peppers of all types were unknown elsewhere around the world before Europeans started exploring the Americas. Not with beef, though, since cows were brought by the Spanish.

 

[Sagittarius]

Got Garlic,

Happy 4th of July.

Hernan Cortez brought peppers back to Spain before approx 1550 under the Reign of Emperor Carlos V. Quite a number of centuries ago ..

Allspice seasoning, is from Central America ..

The recipe is a fusión creation and was re-invented clearly by a Chef at an Italian Restaurant in The USA ..

And since India is the historical origin of black pepper, I believe that there are indigenious peppers and chili peppers in other countries because they are completely different than the Mexican varieties --

I am aware that there must be over 1,000 types of chili peppers and peppers .. However, I am not a historian but I am inclined to believe it is possible ..



Have a nice day ..

 

[GotGarlic]

Got Garlic,

Happy 4th of July.

Hernan Cortez brought peppers back to Spain before approx 1550 under the Reign of Emperor Carlos V...

Like I said, native to the Americas.

Allspice seasoning, I believe is from the Silk Route ( Turkey - Western Asia & Mid East ) ..

The recipe is a fusión creation and was re-invented clearly.

Have a nice day ..

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allspice:

"Allspice, also called pimenta, Jamaica pimenta, myrtle pepper, Turkish yen I Bahar, is the dried unripe fruit (berries, used as a spice) of Pimenta dioica, a mid canopy tree native to the Greater Antilles, southern Mexico, and Central America, now cultivated in many warm parts of the world. The name "allspice" was coined as early as 1621 by the English, who thought it combined the flavour of cinnamon, nutmeg, and cloves."

It's a New World plant, but I have never seen it as part of a recipe for stuffed peppers, so I don't know why it's relevant to this discussion.

From http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodmexican.html

"[Pre-Hispanic Central America]*
"Chilis...are stuffed with different mixtures...
Capon Green Chilis. Choose big, green chilis, toast them and peel them. Make a cut in the chilis below the stalks, being careful not to split them. Devein the chilis. Crumble some fresh cheese, chop some chenopodium leaves and mix with the cheese, chopping up the mixture thoroughly. Stuff the chilis with the mixture and fry them in lard. When they are well-cooked, remove from the fat and drain them. Dip very thin tortillas in boiling hot salted butter or lard and then wrap each chili in a tortilla and place on a serving dish."
---Cocina Prehispanica: Pre-Hispanic Cooking, Ana M. de Benitez [Ediciones Euroamericanas Klaus Thiele:Mexico] 1974 (p. 75-77)"

Of course peppers have been adopted and adapted with ingredients from other areas. My point was simply that I don't think it's an Italian dish, which was one of Larry's original questions.

 

[Sagittarius]

Got Garlic,

It was the Portuguese Traders who bought the chili peppers from the Spanish and then, the Portuguese were the ones who took them to to Goa, India, and Turkey and Hungary amongst other countries in Asia .. And Europe ..

This was in the 1500s ..

That is why I stated the above ..

 

[Sagittarius]

Got Garlic,

Thank you. I have never seen this recipe before ..

Interesting ..

 

[Sagittarius]

@ Kaneo,

Thank you for posting the recipe ..

Happy 4th July.

 

[Steve Kroll]

And since India is the historical origin of black pepper, I believe that there are indigenious peppers and chili peppers in other countries because they are completely different than the Mexican varieties --

black pepper (piper nigrum) has nothing whatsoever to do with capsicum, or chili pepper, varieties. The two are not botanically related.

According to Wikipedia, and backed up here...

Chili peppers originated in Mexico. After the Columbian Exchange, many cultivars of chili pepper spread across the world, used in both food and medicine. Chilies were brought to Asia by Portuguese navigators during the 16th century.​

 

[Cooking Goddess]

larry, I've seen stuffed pepper (and stuffed cabbage) soup in Greek, Polish, and generic "American" restaurants. I don't know if any one nation can lay claim to it. I view it in a restaurant more like an "everything must go" soup. Who knows what is in there? Wait, stuff like that is good!

It would most likely have originated in Central and South America...

I'm going with it being created by an old Polish babcia (bob-shah) who messed up while cooking, putting too much liquid into the stuffed pepper dish. What to do? Oh, add more liquid and call it soup! Winner!

 

[GotGarlic]

Hernan Cortez brought peppers back to Spain before approx 1550 under the Reign of Emperor Carlos V. Quite a number of centuries ago ..

I realize that.

Allspice seasoning, is from Central America ..

That's what I said. Why are you telling me what I said as if I don't know it?

The recipe is a fusión creation and was re-invented clearly by a Chef at an Italian Restaurant in The USA ..

Really? Why do you say that? What makes you think the chef at the restaurant Larry went to invented it?

And since India is the historical origin of black pepper, I believe that there are indigenious peppers and chili peppers in other countries because they are completely different than the Mexican varieties --

You are wrong. As Steve said, the capsicum family is not related at all to black pepper, which is a berry, not a fruit.

I assume you are familiar with the concept of plant breeding? Changing their characteristics by selecting for certain attributes when growing new ones? A German guy called Gregor Mendel described it pretty well.

I am aware that there must be over 1,000 types of chili peppers and peppers .. However, I am not a historian but I am inclined to believe it is possible ..

What is your basis for that belief? You should do some research on it. The history and botany that I have read say that all capsicums *originated* in Central America. Over the last 500 years since they were brought to Europe and elsewhere, more varieties were bred, but that doesn't change the origin.

 

[Sagittarius]

Got Garlic,

Cayenne, French Guiana, the Capital City of French Guiana is the origin of the Cayenne Chili Pepper and dates back to 7,000 B.C.

The Tehucan Ancients of Mexico, and Cayenne date back to 4,000 B.C.


The Southern Asian Countries received the cayenne chiie peppers and sedes in the 1500s from The Portuguese in the 1540´s ..


I must go back to work ..

Have a nice day.

 

[PrincessFiona60]

Please keep these "discussions" out of the recipe forums.

 

[GotGarlic]

Got Garlic,

Cayenne, French Guiana, the Capital City of French Guiana is the origin of the Cayenne Chili Pepper and dates back to 7,000 B.C.

The Tehucan Ancients of Mexico, and Cayenne date back to 4,000 B.C.

The Southern Asian Countries received the cayenne chiie peppers and sedes in the 1500s from The Portuguese in the 1540´s ..

Thanks for proving my point. Just in case you were unaware, French Guiana is in South America.



You really don't have to keep repeating that the Portuguese brought peppers back to Europe. That's well established.