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Old 03-22-2015, 10:25 AM   #61
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...But can it rightfully be called a "pie" if there is no bottom crust?
Absolutely. Pie is a crust of some type or other - pastry, graham cracker, mashed potato, etc., and a filling. The crust can be on the bottom or the top (or both).

Chicken pie, shepherd's/cottage pie, cheesecake, turnovers, empanadas are all pies.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:34 AM   #62
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... Hotdish is a regional word reflective of the Scandinavian immigrants who settled in the areas mentioned. I just find it an interesting "food" word...
I agree. If I was in that region, I would refer to it as a hot dish.

This topic was originally a discussion of the definition of stew vs. casserole. My contention was the cooking vessel or the heat source should not define the dish.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:55 AM   #63
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I agree. If I was in that region, I would refer to it as a hot dish.

This topic was originally a discussion of the definition of stew vs. casserole. My contention was the cooking vessel or the heat source should not define the dish.
The method for preparing the dish and the amount of liquid are more likely to define the dish. I think of stew as something you eat with a spoon out of a bowl; casserole is served on a plate and eaten with a fork.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:58 AM   #64
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The method for preparing the dish and the amount of liquid are more likely to define the dish. I think of stew as something you eat with a spoon out of a bowl; casserole is served on a plate and eaten with a fork.

Yes. The original premise in the dinner thread was: If it's cooked on the stove top it's a stew but if you cook the same recipe in the oven, it's a casserole. From there it expanded to the type of cooking vessel's being the defining component.
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Old 03-22-2015, 11:45 AM   #65
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It isn't important, because words are one of my favorite things--instead of asking why the sky was blue, I was one of those children who wanted to know why grandma said K-nife instead of knife. I loved words with the letter 'q' (btw, in one of my linguistic courses, people shared the letter they fell in love with as a child--q, x, z, k, p, and w were the letters). It is one of those linguistic quirks that I find so very interesting because my MA is in linguistics and dialects were one of the areas I found fascinating to study. I love talking about words. I thought perhaps there were others who would find it fun.


The word is reflective of the immigrants who settled in the area. Where I come from, and where I now live, the word gravy isn't used for the sauce one puts on pasta. For those who live in areas settled by Italian immigrants, gravy is to them what sauce is to those of us living elsewhere and who grew up in communities made up of immigrants from other areas. Another one is bars vs. squares. In New England, there are a lot more verisions for chowder than you'd find in Nebraska. Not a lot variations for chili in MN, but head on down to TX! Church cookbooks and Jr. League cookbooks are a great source of these regional differences.

Language is reflective of culture and "hotdish" is reflective of the tradition of barn raisings, meals that could be stretched to feed a large family, neighbours stopping by if they haven't seen habitual activity at your house for three days (this happens when I'm in MN and my dad is out of town and not walking his dog--the neighbor usually comes by to find out if s/thing has happened to my dad because I'm the one walking the dog). Hotdish is a regional word reflective of the Scandinavian immigrants who settled in the areas mentioned. I just find it an interesting "food" word. Not important, just a regional linguistic anomaly. My grandmother's handwritten cookbook has hotdish recipes--pre-dates when casserole entered the English language in the '50s. She lived almost all of her life 18 miles south of the US-Canada border. In a region settled by Norwegians and Swedes.

You were born in MN, didn't you eat hotdishes before you moved to CA, Kayelle?
This is a great post. I like learning about such distinctions too, although I didn't make a thesis from it. I too love this sort of a discussion, whether online or person to person. Regional colloquialisms can be fascinating.

One more thing that you learn growing up in Minnesota and Wisconsin. They don't have "pot luck dinners". They are smorgasborgs. Churches all hold them for fund raisers. We used to go to 3 or 4 each summer in Balsam Lake, WI. I looked forward to them for the Scandinavian pastries that could be counted on as part of the feast.

Other thoughts: Everyone has heard of bologna or baloney, but out here in rural northeastern Colorado, they call it "minced ham". I thought my wife was talking about deviled ham the first time the subject came up between us. I just though she was weird, but another friend of hers from Iowa grew up with the same term. When I lived in Montana, the roads didn't have a ditch on the side, it was a "barrow pit", and the car didn't have a glove compartment, it was a "jockey box". Also no ravines or arroyos, instead they were "coolies".
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:04 PM   #66
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This is a great post. I like learning about such distinctions too, although I didn't make a thesis from it. I too love this sort of a discussion, whether online or person to person. Regional colloquialisms can be fascinating.

One more thing that you learn growing up in Minnesota and Wisconsin. They don't have "pot luck dinners". They are smorgasborgs. Churches all hold them for fund raisers. We used to go to 3 or 4 each summer in Balsam Lake, WI. I looked forward to them for the Scandinavian pastries that could be counted on as part of the feast.

Other thoughts: Everyone has heard of bologna or baloney, but out here in rural northeastern Colorado, they call it "minced ham". I thought my wife was talking about deviled ham the first time the subject came up between us. I just though she was weird, but another friend of hers from Iowa grew up with the same term. When I lived in Montana, the roads didn't have a ditch on the side, it was a "barrow pit", and the car didn't have a glove compartment, it was a "jockey box". Also no ravines or arroyos, instead they were "coolies".
In one of the cookbooks I have from Iowa, there are four recipes for ham balls. They use ground ham. The sauces differ, but the recipes for the meat are all pretty similar. In the same cookbook, there is a recipe from a contributor in CT. That is for baked macaroni--which others would call mac and cheese.
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:21 PM   #67
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This is a great post. I like learning about such distinctions too, although I didn't make a thesis from it. I too love this sort of a discussion, whether online or person to person. Regional colloquialisms can be fascinating.

One more thing that you learn growing up in Minnesota and Wisconsin. They don't have "pot luck dinners". They are smorgasborgs. Churches all hold them for fund raisers. We used to go to 3 or 4 each summer in Balsam Lake, WI. I looked forward to them for the Scandinavian pastries that could be counted on as part of the feast.

Other thoughts: Everyone has heard of bologna or baloney, but out here in rural northeastern Colorado, they call it "minced ham". I thought my wife was talking about deviled ham the first time the subject came up between us. I just though she was weird, but another friend of hers from Iowa grew up with the same term. When I lived in Montana, the roads didn't have a ditch on the side, it was a "barrow pit", and the car didn't have a glove compartment, it was a "jockey box". Also no ravines or arroyos, instead they were "coolies".

Interesting. I didn't know these local terms and would never have guessed.
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:22 PM   #68
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In one of the cookbooks I have from Iowa, there are four recipes for ham balls. They use ground ham. The sauces differ, but the recipes for the meat are all pretty similar. In the same cookbook, there is a recipe from a contributor in CT. That is for baked macaroni--which others would call mac and cheese.
In the Bahamas they usually just call it macaroni - only occasionally does someone add the word "baked" in front. It's a staple dish there, almost as common as peas and rice.
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:33 PM   #69
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In one of the cookbooks I have from Iowa, there are four recipes for ham balls. They use ground ham. The sauces differ, but the recipes for the meat are all pretty similar. In the same cookbook, there is a recipe from a contributor in CT. That is for baked macaroni--which others would call mac and cheese.
I'm 2nd generation Swedish born in Minneapolis, lived near 50th and Lyndale. Harmon Killebrew was our neighbor! If you remember Bronson-Erickson realty that was us.

Still never once uttered the word hot dish. It was always casserole. I know about the regional thing now, though, but we never used the term. We did have a lot of smorgasbords!

Moved to Cedar Rapids. Never heard of a ham ball. A Maidrite yes. Ham ball no.

Then on to Boston and the endless debate about a proper lobster roll.
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Old 03-22-2015, 02:02 PM   #70
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Jennyemma, just curious, how do you define second generation? I looked it up in Wikipedia This is what they write:

"Like "first-generation immigrant," the term "second-generation" can refer to a member of either:
  • the second generation of a family to inhabit, but the first to be natively born in, a country, or
  • the second generation to be born in a country."
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