What makes casserole, casserole and what makes stew, stew?

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...But can it rightfully be called a "pie" if there is no bottom crust? :huh:

Absolutely. Pie is a crust of some type or other - pastry, graham cracker, mashed potato, etc., and a filling. The crust can be on the bottom or the top (or both).

Chicken pie, shepherd's/cottage pie, cheesecake, turnovers, empanadas are all pies.
 
... Hotdish is a regional word reflective of the Scandinavian immigrants who settled in the areas mentioned. I just find it an interesting "food" word...

I agree. If I was in that region, I would refer to it as a hot dish.

This topic was originally a discussion of the definition of stew vs. casserole. My contention was the cooking vessel or the heat source should not define the dish.
 
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I agree. If I was in that region, I would refer to it as a hot dish.

This topic was originally a discussion of the definition of stew vs. casserole. My contention was the cooking vessel or the heat source should not define the dish.
The method for preparing the dish and the amount of liquid are more likely to define the dish. I think of stew as something you eat with a spoon out of a bowl; casserole is served on a plate and eaten with a fork.
 
The method for preparing the dish and the amount of liquid are more likely to define the dish. I think of stew as something you eat with a spoon out of a bowl; casserole is served on a plate and eaten with a fork.


Yes. The original premise in the dinner thread was: If it's cooked on the stove top it's a stew but if you cook the same recipe in the oven, it's a casserole. From there it expanded to the type of cooking vessel's being the defining component.
 
It isn't important, because words are one of my favorite things--instead of asking why the sky was blue, I was one of those children who wanted to know why grandma said K-nife instead of knife. I loved words with the letter 'q' (btw, in one of my linguistic courses, people shared the letter they fell in love with as a child--q, x, z, k, p, and w were the letters). It is one of those linguistic quirks that I find so very interesting because my MA is in linguistics and dialects were one of the areas I found fascinating to study. I love talking about words. I thought perhaps there were others who would find it fun.


The word is reflective of the immigrants who settled in the area. Where I come from, and where I now live, the word gravy isn't used for the sauce one puts on pasta. For those who live in areas settled by Italian immigrants, gravy is to them what sauce is to those of us living elsewhere and who grew up in communities made up of immigrants from other areas. Another one is bars vs. squares. In New England, there are a lot more verisions for chowder than you'd find in Nebraska. Not a lot variations for chili in MN, but head on down to TX! Church cookbooks and Jr. League cookbooks are a great source of these regional differences.

Language is reflective of culture and "hotdish" is reflective of the tradition of barn raisings, meals that could be stretched to feed a large family, neighbours stopping by if they haven't seen habitual activity at your house for three days (this happens when I'm in MN and my dad is out of town and not walking his dog--the neighbor usually comes by to find out if s/thing has happened to my dad because I'm the one walking the dog). Hotdish is a regional word reflective of the Scandinavian immigrants who settled in the areas mentioned. I just find it an interesting "food" word. Not important, just a regional linguistic anomaly. My grandmother's handwritten cookbook has hotdish recipes--pre-dates when casserole entered the English language in the '50s. She lived almost all of her life 18 miles south of the US-Canada border. In a region settled by Norwegians and Swedes.

You were born in MN, didn't you eat hotdishes before you moved to CA, Kayelle?

This is a great post. I like learning about such distinctions too, although I didn't make a thesis from it. I too love this sort of a discussion, whether online or person to person. Regional colloquialisms can be fascinating.

One more thing that you learn growing up in Minnesota and Wisconsin. They don't have "pot luck dinners". They are smorgasborgs. Churches all hold them for fund raisers. We used to go to 3 or 4 each summer in Balsam Lake, WI. I looked forward to them for the Scandinavian pastries that could be counted on as part of the feast.

Other thoughts: Everyone has heard of bologna or baloney, but out here in rural northeastern Colorado, they call it "minced ham". I thought my wife was talking about deviled ham the first time the subject came up between us. I just though she was weird, but another friend of hers from Iowa grew up with the same term. When I lived in Montana, the roads didn't have a ditch on the side, it was a "barrow pit", and the car didn't have a glove compartment, it was a "jockey box". Also no ravines or arroyos, instead they were "coolies".
 
This is a great post. I like learning about such distinctions too, although I didn't make a thesis from it. I too love this sort of a discussion, whether online or person to person. Regional colloquialisms can be fascinating.

One more thing that you learn growing up in Minnesota and Wisconsin. They don't have "pot luck dinners". They are smorgasborgs. Churches all hold them for fund raisers. We used to go to 3 or 4 each summer in Balsam Lake, WI. I looked forward to them for the Scandinavian pastries that could be counted on as part of the feast.

Other thoughts: Everyone has heard of bologna or baloney, but out here in rural northeastern Colorado, they call it "minced ham". I thought my wife was talking about deviled ham the first time the subject came up between us. I just though she was weird, but another friend of hers from Iowa grew up with the same term. When I lived in Montana, the roads didn't have a ditch on the side, it was a "barrow pit", and the car didn't have a glove compartment, it was a "jockey box". Also no ravines or arroyos, instead they were "coolies".
In one of the cookbooks I have from Iowa, there are four recipes for ham balls. They use ground ham. The sauces differ, but the recipes for the meat are all pretty similar. In the same cookbook, there is a recipe from a contributor in CT. That is for baked macaroni--which others would call mac and cheese.
 
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This is a great post. I like learning about such distinctions too, although I didn't make a thesis from it. I too love this sort of a discussion, whether online or person to person. Regional colloquialisms can be fascinating.

One more thing that you learn growing up in Minnesota and Wisconsin. They don't have "pot luck dinners". They are smorgasborgs. Churches all hold them for fund raisers. We used to go to 3 or 4 each summer in Balsam Lake, WI. I looked forward to them for the Scandinavian pastries that could be counted on as part of the feast.

Other thoughts: Everyone has heard of bologna or baloney, but out here in rural northeastern Colorado, they call it "minced ham". I thought my wife was talking about deviled ham the first time the subject came up between us. I just though she was weird, but another friend of hers from Iowa grew up with the same term. When I lived in Montana, the roads didn't have a ditch on the side, it was a "barrow pit", and the car didn't have a glove compartment, it was a "jockey box". Also no ravines or arroyos, instead they were "coolies".


Interesting. I didn't know these local terms and would never have guessed.
 
In one of the cookbooks I have from Iowa, there are four recipes for ham balls. They use ground ham. The sauces differ, but the recipes for the meat are all pretty similar. In the same cookbook, there is a recipe from a contributor in CT. That is for baked macaroni--which others would call mac and cheese.

In the Bahamas they usually just call it macaroni - only occasionally does someone add the word "baked" in front. It's a staple dish there, almost as common as peas and rice.
 
In one of the cookbooks I have from Iowa, there are four recipes for ham balls. They use ground ham. The sauces differ, but the recipes for the meat are all pretty similar. In the same cookbook, there is a recipe from a contributor in CT. That is for baked macaroni--which others would call mac and cheese.

I'm 2nd generation Swedish born in Minneapolis, lived near 50th and Lyndale. Harmon Killebrew was our neighbor! If you remember Bronson-Erickson realty that was us.

Still never once uttered the word hot dish. It was always casserole. I know about the regional thing now, though, but we never used the term. We did have a lot of smorgasbords!:yum:

Moved to Cedar Rapids. Never heard of a ham ball. A Maidrite yes. Ham ball no.

Then on to Boston and the endless debate about a proper lobster roll.:LOL:
 
Jennyemma, just curious, how do you define second generation? I looked it up in Wikipedia This is what they write:

"Like "first-generation immigrant," the term "second-generation" can refer to a member of either:
  • the second generation of a family to inhabit, but the first to be natively born in, a country, or
  • the second generation to be born in a country."
 
You were born in MN, didn't you eat hotdishes before you moved to CA, Kayelle?

:LOL: I wasn't eating solid food when we left MN for CA. Many years later when my Mom died, I found a recipe in her little recipe box for "Minnesota Hot Dish" That's the first time I ever heard the term and I don't remember her making it. Then again, returning to CA was going back home for her.
I grew up with the word "casserole".
 
Jennyemma, just curious, how do you define second generation? I looked it up in Wikipedia This is what they write:

"Like "first-generation immigrant," the term "second-generation" can refer to a member of either:
  • the second generation of a family to inhabit, but the first to be natively born in, a country, or
  • the second generation to be born in a country."

There does not seem to be a consensus. However, "first generation immigrant" is not correct. You are either an immigrant or natural born.
 
I'm 2nd generation Swedish born in Minneapolis, lived near 50th and Lyndale. Harmon Killebrew was our neighbor! If you remember Bronson-Erickson realty that was us.

Still never once uttered the word hot dish. It was always casserole. I know about the regional thing now, though, but we never used the term. We did have a lot of smorgasbords!:yum:

Moved to Cedar Rapids. Never heard of a ham ball. A Maidrite yes. Ham ball no.

Then on to Boston and the endless debate about a proper lobster roll.:LOL:
The school cafeteria served a lot of hotdishes in Bloomington--I particularly did not like the macaroni-tomato-tuna hotdish. However, it was better than the macaroni-cheese-tomato-tuna one my mother made. I was not sorry to see that leave the weekly recipe rotation!

BTW, Minneapolis claims to be the home of what is called Minnesota Tarter Tot hotdish. (hotdish is one word when a noun, two words when an adjective). I have never eaten a ham ball, but Iowa and hog farms do go together.
 
The school cafeteria served a lot of hotdishes in Bloomington--I particularly did not like the macaroni-tomato-tuna hotdish. However, it was better than the macaroni-cheese-tomato-tuna one my mother made. I was not sorry to see that leave the weekly recipe rotation!

BTW, Minneapolis claims to be the home of what is called Minnesota Tarter Tot hotdish. (hotdish is one word when a noun, two words when an adjective). I have never eaten a ham ball, but Iowa and hog farms do go together.

My Minnesota born and raised mother had a recipe for ham balls (probably cut from a magazine as a lot of her stuff was), but I do believe that it has not come down to any of us kids. I know that my sister and brother did not like them at all, and while I liked them, it just didn't cross my mind at any time when I was cherry picking her recipes.
 
...

Other thoughts: Everyone has heard of bologna or baloney, but out here in rural northeastern Colorado, they call it "minced ham". I thought my wife was talking about deviled ham the first time the subject came up between us. I just though she was weird, but another friend of hers from Iowa grew up with the same term. When I lived in Montana, the roads didn't have a ditch on the side, it was a "barrow pit", and the car didn't have a glove compartment, it was a "jockey box". Also no ravines or arroyos, instead they were "coolies".
Well, that explains Frank's signature:

"First you start with a pound of bologna..."
-My Grandmother on how to make ham salad.
 
Re: Defining first and second generation - I found the following on the US Census website. It's an excerpt from a report:

**********************
The U.S. Census Bureau reports that 36.7 million of the nation's population (12 percent) were foreign-born, and another 33 million (11 percent) were native-born with at least one foreign-born parent in 2009, making one in five people either first or second generation U.S. residents. The second generation were more likely than the foreign born to be better educated and have higher earnings and less likely to be in poverty...
**********************

The bolded phrases suggest the first generation was foreign born and moved here and their children were the second generation.

I don't know if you want to accept the US Census Bureau as an acknowledged authority but at least we know how it's viewed for "official" purposes.
 
Re: Defining first and second generation - I found the following on the US Census website. It's an excerpt from a report:

**********************
The U.S. Census Bureau reports that 36.7 million of the nation's population (12 percent) were foreign-born, and another 33 million (11 percent) were native-born with at least one foreign-born parent in 2009, making one in five people either first or second generation U.S. residents. The second generation were more likely than the foreign born to be better educated and have higher earnings and less likely to be in poverty...
**********************

The bolded phrases suggest the first generation was foreign born and moved here and their children were the second generation.

I don't know if you want to accept the US Census Bureau as an acknowledged authority but at least we know how it's viewed for "official" purposes.
That was mentioned in the Wikipedia article. But, general usage isn't nearly that tidy. And, it doesn't really answer what jennyemma meant. ;)
 
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