Can you make a mac & cheese sauce without flour?

[TATTRAT]

Make a roux with cornstarch or make the cheese sauce without making a roux.

Cornstarch ad water make a slurry

Flour and any oil(lipid)Butter, veg oil, soy oil= Roux

Slurry for translucent sauces(think Chinese foods/glazes)

Roux for thicker, heavier, clouded sauces(think gravy, sausage gravy, moms style stuff)

Slurry will eventually break too, and loose it's thickening properties.

Roux will burn. Roux should go hot(sauce) and Roux cold/room temp, to avoid lumps. Hot roux into a hot/simmer sauce base will just make a bunch of little dumplings.

 

[Robert360]

I think I'm just going to try cream, milk and cheese and see how that turns out.

 

[Bigjim68]

Most of the time, I don't bother with the milk. Just heavy whipping cream.

 

[ChefJune]

I haven't found a processed cheese I like yet but I'll try it if I can find it
Might be good for sandwiches for kid lunchboxes if I don't enjoy it.
We have Kraft Products so maybe someone stocks it.

It's really not cheese, and doesn't pretend to be. In fact it's always been labeled "cheese food." I liked it as a kid, but the texture is off-putting to me now. Kinda like eating cheese-flavored plastic.

The sauce for Macaroni and cheese is really nothing more complicated than a classic Mornay Sauce. That is a Bechamel with cheese added. For Bechamel, you start with equal parts flour and fat. The flour needs to be cooked long enough to cook the "flour taste" out, but not long enough to brown the roux. Then milk is added. When that sauce is smooth and thick, grated cheese (whatever kind you like, but traditionally, cheddar) is added and stirred until the cheese has melted and the sauce is smooth.

When you've mastered it, you've got one of the "Mother Sauces" down!

 

[Alix]

It's really not cheese, and doesn't pretend to be. In fact it's always been labeled "cheese food." I liked it as a kid, but the texture is off-putting to me now. Kinda like eating cheese-flavored plastic.

You should try the Canadian variety, as I said it IS cheese, not cheese food.

 

[jennyema]

Make a roux with cornstarch or make the cheese sauce without making a roux.

You can't make a roux with cornstarch. But you can very easily just melt the cheese in condensed milk.

 

[jennyema]

I think Velveeta ("Pasteurized Prepared Cheese Product") is pretty gruesome. It's tasteless and it's plastic texture is really a turn off.

But I have to say that I usually add a little of it to my mac and cheese, even when I am using other really good cheese because it melts so well and helps make the sauce very creamy.

 

[Snip 13]

You can't make a roux with cornstarch. But you can very easily just melt the cheese in condensed milk.

I meant a slurry to thicken the cheese sauce to help the cheese blend better with the milk or cream " had a fingers faster that thoughts moment lol"
Not sure about the condensed milk thing, the sauce will be sweet, maybe evaporated milk.

 

[jennyema]

Not sure about the condensed milk thing, the sauce will be sweet, maybe evaporated milk.

Oh Lord!! That would be disgusting. Like the time I made bechemel with powdered sugar and not flour.

Good catch, THANKS: I meant evaporated milk.

 

[Snip 13]

Oh Lord!! That would be disgusting. Like the time I made bechemel with powdered sugar and not flour.

Good catch, THANKS: I meant evaporated milk.

You pointed out my blonde moment and I yours lol ! Now we're even.
No sweet lumpy cheese disasters in our future :P

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

Classic Bechemel Sauce:
3 tbs. butter
3 tbs. al purpose flour
pinch of salt
Milk

In a saute' pan, melt the butter and add the flour and salt. A thin paste will form. Cook the paste over medium heat for about three minutes to remove the raw-flour flavor. While whisking, slowly add milk, a little at a time. At first, the roux will get super thick. As you wisk in more milk, it will begin to thin into a rich white sauce. When it has reached the thickness you desire (it should coat a spoon that is dipped in it) add just a pinch of nutmeg. This is Bechemel Sauce, one of the 5 mother sauces. To make Mornay sauce, add grated Gruyere cheese and stir until smooth. The best way to do this is to have the cheese at room temperature. Remove the sauce from the heat source, and slowly stir in the cheese.

Many people add grated Parmesano Regiano to the Bechemel for a version of Alfredo Sauce. Very sharp cheddar is typically used for mac and cheese, or some combination of cheeses that includes very sharp cheddar.

The roux can also be used to bind soups, and is the base for Veloute Sauce, where a chicken, veal, or pork stock is added to make thin the roux into a sauce.

If you remove a roux from heat and quickly stir in raw eggs, you end up with choux paste, from which eclairs, profiteroles, and puffs are made.

Roux is a wonderful thing. You just have to keep dairy products from reaching temperatures in excess of 175' to prevent them from breaking.

Oh, and a classic example of a roux based sauce uses sausage grease and milk. Fry bulk sausage in a pan. Add 3 tbs. of flour to the sausage, along with 1/2 tsp. ground pepper. Then, after cooking for a couple of minutes, slowly stir in milk until you get a wonderful gravy. Add a bit of rubbed sage and cook for another minutes. You now have that famous southern dish, sausage gravy, which is served over biscuits.

Check out my blog for a more detailed explanation of the properties of fat, flour, and liquid.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

 

[ChefJune]

Classic Bechemel Sauce:
3 tbs. butter
3 tbs. al purpose flour
pinch of salt
Milk

In a saute' pan, melt the butter and add the flour and salt. A thin paste will form. Cook the paste over medium heat for about three minutes to remove the raw-flour flavor. While whisking, slowly add milk, a little at a time. At first, the roux will get super thick. As you wisk in more milk, it will begin to thin into a rich white sauce. When it has reached the thickness you desire (it should coat a spoon that is dipped in it) add just a pinch of nutmeg. This is Bechemel Sauce, one of the 5 mother sauces. To make Mornay sauce, add grated Gruyere cheese and stir until smooth. The best way to do this is to have the cheese at room temperature. Remove the sauce from the heat source, and slowly stir in the cheese.

Many people add grated Parmesano Regiano to the Bechemel for a version of Alfredo Sauce. Very sharp cheddar is typically used for mac and cheese, or some combination of cheeses that includes very sharp cheddar.

The roux can also be used to bind soups, and is the base for Veloute Sauce, where a chicken, veal, or pork stock is added to make thin the roux into a sauce.

If you remove a roux from heat and quickly stir in raw eggs, you end up with choux paste, from which eclairs, profiteroles, and puffs are made.

Roux is a wonderful thing. You just have to keep dairy products from reaching temperatures in excess of 175' to prevent them from breaking.

Oh, and a classic example of a roux based sauce uses sausage grease and milk. Fry bulk sausage in a pan. Add 3 tbs. of flour to the sausage, along with 1/2 tsp. ground pepper. Then, after cooking for a couple of minutes, slowly stir in milk until you get a wonderful gravy. Add a bit of rubbed sage and cook for another minutes. You now have that famous southern dish, sausage gravy, which is served over biscuits.

Check out my blog for a more detailed explanation of the properties of fat, flour, and liquid.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

Very good, GW! but can I tell you how many times I've made BechAmel Sauce with a whole lot more flour and butter than 3 Tablespoons? And you didn't suggest an amount of milk that corresponds to those 3 Tablespoons. For 3 Tablespoons, 2 cups of milk will be all the sauce will hold. but you wrote your recipe very clearly. I wasn't being snide when I said "Very good! "

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

Very good, GW! but can I tell you how many times I've made BechAmel Sauce with a whole lot more flour and butter than 3 Tablespoons? And you didn't suggest an amount of milk that corresponds to those 3 Tablespoons. For 3 Tablespoons, 2 cups of milk will be all the sauce will hold. but you wrote your recipe very clearly. I wasn't being snide when I said "Very good! "

For the size meals I prepare, 3 tbs is about the correct amount of fat and flour that I require. I purosely didn't give the milk amount as that can be gauged simply by adding milk and stirring over heat until the right consistancy is reached, no matter the amount of fat and flour. I do the same thing when making pie crusts. I put in the amount flour and salt required for whatever it is that I'm making, then add lard and cut in, a little at a time, until I get the pea-gravel consistancy i'm looking for. The flour and fat can be worked indefinitely without making the crust tough as the gluten doesn't form until liquid is added. This makes my pie crusts, and my bechemel based sauces fool proof.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

 

[jennyema]

For mac and cheese i usually start with 5T of each.

The sauce can be made anywhere from a cream soup to almost a paste, depending on its end use. Add liquid accordingly.

For mac and cheese I always make the sauce pretty thin.

And use a lot of cheese.

 

[Snip 13]

I'm sure we all know how to make a bechemel by now, wasn't the question how not to make a roux? lol!

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

I'm sure we all know how to make a bechemel by now, wasn't the question how not to make a roux? lol!

Reading between the lines, the op stated that his cheese sauce made with a roux failed. It came out lumpy. if the same technique were used, but with cream, or evaporated milk, the lumpy sauce problem would remain. I also added that to smoothly incorporate cheese into any sauce, the cheese should be grated and at room temperature, and the sauce should be removed from the heat source. Whether Bechemel, or cream is used, following the technique will result in a creamy and smooth cheese sauce for the mac and cheese. The rest of the info was provided because I love to help others learn new info and techniques. Now, the op has multiple options, each of which will produce a successful sauce.

I can't seem to help myself. That may be why BT dubbed me "Chief Longwind".

Seeeeeya; Godoweed of the North

 

[Robert360]

Most of the time, I don't bother with the milk. Just heavy whipping cream.

Does it come out ok? Any thickness issues?

 

[Bigjim68]

Does it come out ok? Any thickness issues?

For Mac and Cheese, heavy whipping cream is about right for my taste. Most important is keeping the temp of the cream right. Too hot and the sauce will break.

From the posts, there are as many ways to make mac and cheese as there are ways to cook a steak.

 

[Dawgluver]

Reading between the lines, the op stated that his cheese sauce made with a roux failed. It came out lumpy. if the same technique were used, but with cream, or evaporated milk, the lumpy sauce problem would remain. I also added that to smoothly incorporate cheese into any sauce, the cheese should be grated and at room temperature, and the sauce should be removed from the heat source. Whether Bechemel, or cream is used, following the technique will result in a creamy and smooth cheese sauce for the mac and cheese. The rest of the info was provided because I love to help others learn new info and techniques. Now, the op has multiple options, each of which will produce a successful sauce.

I can't seem to help myself. That may be why BT dubbed me "Chief Longwind".

Seeeeeya; Godoweed of the North

I found your posts to be very helpful, GW! Stuff I did not know otherwise! Thanks!

 

[Snip 13]

Reading between the lines, the op stated that his cheese sauce made with a roux failed. It came out lumpy. if the same technique were used, but with cream, or evaporated milk, the lumpy sauce problem would remain. I also added that to smoothly incorporate cheese into any sauce, the cheese should be grated and at room temperature, and the sauce should be removed from the heat source. Whether Bechemel, or cream is used, following the technique will result in a creamy and smooth cheese sauce for the mac and cheese. The rest of the info was provided because I love to help others learn new info and techniques. Now, the op has multiple options, each of which will produce a successful sauce.

I can't seem to help myself. That may be why BT dubbed me "Chief Longwind".

Seeeeeya; Godoweed of the North

Yes Sir Chief Longwind!
But if you start teaching us how to boil an egg or cook rice I'm bunking your class
Thanks for reminding us how it's done