"Velveting" for Stir Fry dishes? Do you?

[Cheryl J]

I haven't 'velveted' before, but I've heard about it for years now with such positive results. I'd love to try it. Thanks for the info and links, everyone.

 

[Kayelle]

Bull headed I admit, so I was both little skeptical and nervous over following the exact directions last night. But guess what? Now I know for sure, and I'm sold.


Creative, I'm sure your recipe is delicious, but by definition it hasn't been "velveted".

 

[GotGarlic]

GotGarlic - the chinese recipe did say to marinade it for a few hours or overnight. (Turning it several times for the first hour - to help ensure the cornflour disperses evenly).

Old recipes are often based on ingredients that are not available or not common in current markets. Modern chicken has been bred to be more tender, and is generally slaughtered at a much younger age than they used to be, which also contributes to tenderness. So older recipes - even from 20 or so years ago - often don't account for these differences.

Kenji from Serious Eats extensively tests different ingredients, methods and techniques before publishing his recipes. I used to think that it was necessary to marinate chicken for many hours, but I have found from experience that that isn't so

 

[Josie1945]

Very interesting, Kayelle. I just marinate and toss into oil. So much easier because I am a lazy cook. Maybe not so lazy, but rather slow.

Josie, do you ever use the Egg Beaters 100% Egg Whites? I think using those would be easier for me since I have no idea what I would do with all the leftover yolks. LOTS of hollandaise sauce, I guess.

CG I only stir fry about once a month
so I don't have a problem using up the yolks.
I never buy Egg beaters
Josie

 

[tenspeed]

I used to think that it was necessary to marinate chicken for many hours, but I have found from experience that that isn't so

Many years ago I read that marinades fall into two categories - flavor and tenderizing. Flavor marinades only require 30 - 40 minutes at most, and tenderizing marinades require hours (or even overnight).

Grilled chicken strips is a common after work meal for us. Start dinner prep by cutting the chicken breasts into 2 or 3 strips and coating them with marinade (often a bottled marinade), and then proceed with prepping the rest of the dinner and lighting the grill. That pre-marinated stuff at the store tends to be mealy from sitting in marinade way too long. Flavor marinades containing oil keep the chicken from drying out on the grill.

 

[Andy M.]

Testing has shown most marinades do not tenderize. Typically, marinades containing dairy or certain enzymes such as those found in papaya and pineapple are the only ones that tenderize meats.

Many marinades will make the surface of meats mushy.

 

[GotGarlic]

Many years ago I read ...

This is the key. Lots of cooking myths that people believed many years ago have been proven by testing to be faulty.

 

[creative]

Testing has shown most marinades do not tenderize. Typically, marinades containing dairy or certain enzymes such as those found in papaya and pineapple are the only ones that tenderize meats.

Many marinades will make the surface of meats mushy.

Yes so SOME marinades DO tenderise meat!

Also 'velveting' suggests a softening of texture which I can vouch for, i.e. the chinese recipe I have tried does this!

 

[Andy M.]

Some of us may remember Adolph's Meat Tenderizer. It's still available in a shaker jar to tenderize tough cuts of meat. It is made up of salt, sugar, corn starch and bromelain, an extract from the pineapple plant that tenderizes meat protein.

 

[GotGarlic]

Yes so SOME marinades DO tenderise meat!

Also 'velveting' suggests a softening of texture which I can vouch for, i.e. the chinese recipe I have tried does this!

Yikes! Well, I GUESS you must be RIGHT!! with all the exclamation! points!! and smilies!!

Your recipe didn't include a tenderizing agent, though. Whatever the texture you ended up with, it's still not velveting.

 

[creative]

Yikes! Well, I GUESS you must be RIGHT!! with all the exclamation! points!! and smilies!!

Your recipe didn't include a tenderizing agent, though. Whatever the texture you ended up with, it's still not velveting.

I used the same ingredients for velveting, i.e. egg white and cornstarch.

No doubt you will quibble about how it is then cooked but there is no getting away from the key ingredients. The chicken is DECIDEDLY more tender! Like I said, if you tried it you might have 2nd thoughts about being so adamant.

 

[GotGarlic]

I used the same ingredients for velveting, i.e. egg white and cornstarch.

No doubt you will quibble about how it is then cooked but there is no getting away from the key ingredients. The chicken is DECIDEDLY more tender! Like I said, if you tried it you might have 2nd thoughts about being so adamant.

Dearie, I have done that. What I have not done is the blanching in oil or water. Apparently, neither have you. Therefore, you have not velveted the dish.

This is not simply my opinion, and it's not quibbling. I posted the definition earlier, as did Cooking Goddess, as did Kayelle when she started this thread. If you refuse to accept that velveting is a three-part process, and you have only done two of the parts, well, that's on you.

 

[tenspeed]

I just looked it up in "The Food Lab" (by Kenji Lopez-Alt). According to Kenji, acid will tenderize meat, but only a short distance from the surface (few millimeters). Marinating time should be between 1 and 12 hours. According to Daniel Gritzer, not much benefit is gained beyond 25 minutes. His article references the tenderizing enzymes in fruit juices such as pineapple.

Here are links to a couple of Seriouseats articles pertaining to beef:

How to Marinate and Grill Flank Steaks | Serious Eats

Stew Science: Should You Marinate the Beef First? | Serious Eats

 

[GotGarlic]

And if you're like me - really into this stuff and don't want to read *everything* online - you can buy Kenji's book released last fall:

The Food Lab: Better Home Cooking Through Science

I got it for Christmas

 

[blissful]

I see that some of us are calling one step in the velveting technique "marinating". If "marinating" means tenderizing the meat with an acid, and an acid is part of the velveting recipe, then I would agree. Mostly from my experience, since there is no reason the meat must sit in the non-acid velveting substance, there may be another reason for this. It may take a few minutes (to a few hours) necessary for the cornstarch to soak up the moisture, so it is 'ready' for the pass through oil or water. We might use the word 'marinate' to mean, to soak in, for a while. This is similar to some recipes for fried chicken, a batter or egg/flour/crumbs, is applied, then it is let to sit for a while, so the batter or crumbs, sticks to it and stays stuck to it.

 

[Kayelle]

Chinese Velveting 101: An Introduction to Water-Velveting | Serious Eats

Creative, I'm now believing that you have not even read the link I posted, but have just argued that your method gets the same results. It does not.

The link that CG left is a good one too.

http://kitchenencounters.typepad.co...-velvet-tenderize-food-like-the-chinese-.html

I'd suggest you read both of them.

 

[GotGarlic]

I see that some of us are calling one step in the velveting technique "marinating". If "marinating" means tenderizing the meat with an acid, and an acid is part of the velveting recipe, then I would agree. Mostly from my experience, since there is no reason the meat must sit in the non-acid velveting substance, there may be another reason for this. It may take a few minutes (to a few hours) necessary for the cornstarch to soak up the moisture, so it is 'ready' for the pass through oil or water. We might use the word 'marinate' to mean, to soak in, for a while. This is similar to some recipes for fried chicken, a batter or egg/flour/crumbs, is applied, then it is let to sit for a while, so the batter or crumbs, sticks to it and stays stuck to it.

A marinade's purpose is to add flavor to meat. It tenderizes only the outermost layer. It's composed of oil, acid and flavoring components. For a long time, people thought marinades tenderize meat throughout, but testing has shown that that's not the case. If you have marinated meat and you cook or cut it incorrectly, the result will be tough.

Here's what Kenji has to say about it, since no one wants to click on the link and read it:

Here's a must-know technique if you are the kind of person who enjoys stir-frying relatively low-fat cuts of meat like chicken, fish or certain types of pork. See, the problem with standard stir-frying is that the extreme heat necessary to develop the smoky char without overcooking the interior of the meat also causes low-fat cuts of meat to dry out and turn stringy. To prevent this, you need to create some sort of insulative buffer to protect your meat as it cooks, much in the same way that you might bread a chicken breast before sauteeing it or batter a piece of lean fish before frying it.

In Chinese cuisine, the most common form of insulation is to use a technique called*velveting. Slices of meat are marinated in a mixture of egg whites, corn starch, and a liquid—usually a bit of soy sauce or Xiaoshing wine‐before getting par-cooked in a fair amount of oil just until the exterior is set. The proteins in the egg white set up, while the cornstarch prevents them from becoming too tough. You end up with soft, tender, slippery slices of meat that you can then add to your stir-fry towards the end just to barely cook them through.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/06/the-food-lab-stir-fried-velvet-chicken-with-s.html

 

[creative]

If you refuse to accept that velveting is a three-part process, and you have only done two of the parts, well, that's on you.

I don't refuse to accept that velveting is a 3 part process....what I have debated is that the word implies a tender meat which, as mentioned, the chinese recipe I use DOES produce this i.e. with the same ingredients. I don't care that it is not the fully fledged authentic version. My point is that it is delicious! You should try it - I think you would be surprised!

As you say, older recipes may not be up to speed and this is where the grey area/confusion may be. I hope this clears the matter up now.

 

[jennyema]

And if you're like me - really into this stuff and don't want to read *everything* online - you can buy Kenji's book released last fall:

The Food Lab: Better Home Cooking Through Science

I got it for Christmas

That's a terrific book. I have it too and have gifted it to a few friends.

Kenji rocks!

And you are absolutely right about velveting being a three part process.

And you are also spot on about marinating not generally being a tenderizing technique but a flavoring one.

 

[GotGarlic]

That's a terrific book. I have it too and have gifted it to a few friends.

Kenji rocks!

And you are absolutely right about velveting being a three part process.

And you are also spot on about marinating not generally being a tenderizing technique but a flavoring one.

Thanks, jenny! Agree on all counts