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Old 04-05-2012, 12:15 PM   #41
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@ Steve,

Hope u are having lovely holiday and time off for all ur wonderful gastronomic hobbies.

Thanks for your clarification on some controversial points, where words are not sufficient ...

Homogenized and pasterized are mis ... interpreted in EU ... they tend to mean, falsified dairy !

Kindest and Happy Holidays.
Margaux Cintrano.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:32 PM   #42
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Margi, as far as your kosher questions, sorry folks totally of topic here, let me try to answer in order of your questions.

1. Traditionally kosher wine had to be made by Jews to be kosher, nothing specifically non-kosher about grape and grape product, except the fact that there could have been small bugs on the vine and bugs are big no-no. Thus in Jewish production the special attention was given to that fact.

2. Milk of a kosher animal, cow, goat, lamb, is inherently kosher. However in the olden day in the Eastern European countries when an old woman or a young one for that matter, would milk the cow, and I have seen this with my own eyes even nowadays during my summers spent out in the country side, they would put some pork lard on their hands, a hand lotion of a sort if you will, to make hands softer so not to hurt the udder. And then during milking the milk will sort of drip (unintentionally probably or not) thru the lard laden hands rendering that milk not kosher because it just got mixed in with pork fat, very none kosher item.
In the hot climate there was a different sort of a problem. To keep the cow or goat milk for a long time the owners would mixed it with the milk of a donkey, for some reason milk of a donkey last much-much longer by compressing. Again a kosher item mixed in with not kosher making unfit for consumption. BTW word “kosher” means “fit”, i.e. fit for consumption according to the Torah laws. So to avoid the above problem for milk and furthermore other dairy by products, it is necessary for Jewish supervision. A side note, nowadays in America the rules are so strict that some Rabbis say that it is not a problem to consume regular milk that was produced without Jewish supervision, because the government requirements are so strict that we can rely on those requirements.
A separate issue is with cheese production. The animal rennet used in traditional production. This means mixing of meat and dairy products together which is also not allowed by laws of kashrut.

3. What do you mean by natural foods? Eggs of a kosher bird are kosher and do not require supervision, however one has to know for sure that it is chicken egg you are eating and not an eagle. Honey is consider kosher, as long as there are no leftovers of the bee in it, apparently a lot of times bees lose their legs in honey, that honey would not be kosher. All vegetables and fruits are naturally kosher if not served with bugs that are often found on them, especially on leafy things like lettuce for example. Even water could be a problem. There was some kind of tiny-tiny bugs in the water in some district of New York and the kosher consumer had to buy bottled water. Laws of kashrut are very complicated. Those are just few small examples that do not even begin to scratch the surface of the real issue at large.

If you need/want to know more details, please PM me I do not want to take any more time and space of the topic here and people’s patients (sp?). Thank you and sorry everybody.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:07 PM   #43
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Charlie, I think the rules of kashrut would make an interesting thread on its own.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:48 AM   #44
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Charley D both my parents were atheists which was one of the reasons my parents moved from London to Wales.This lead to yrs of isolation from my father family (all my Mums were dead). My Dads family were very Orthodox. One day I answered the door and their was a little man with a cigar in his mouth(my uncle by marriage, a Georgian Jew) little Maury was a legend in the east end of London
A lot of crying took place, Maury went back and told them we were well and this rift should be healed.

The first meal I remember was at my Aunty Sadie's house in Regents Park it was leg of lamb that had be porged by Manns the butcher. The cost of the Micro surgery to take every vein out of the leg to produce a kosher hind leg was massive.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:10 AM   #45
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@ Charlie D. : Kindest Thanks

Good Afternoon Charlie,

Firstly, I want to thank you for your exemplary information provided, the time taken and thoroughly profound yet comprehensible explanations on the heritage and history of Jewish gastronomic Dietary Laws.

From my viewpoint, you would certainly be a fine University Professor or Adult Educational Coach ...

I also agree, that your knowledge on this ancient cultural and theological gastronomic topic is vast and it would make a great article and / or a book introduction !

My kindest regards and Thanks again for your kindness and time.
Margaux Cintrano.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:17 AM   #46
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@ Tax lady,

Thanks so much for your research and website information on raw milk sources around the world ... There is a very good one in Galicia and they ship anywhere in Spain ...

Kindest.
Margi.
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