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Old 09-29-2004, 09:08 PM   #1
 
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Are Sunbeam Mixmasters?

I was just reading through the instruction manual for the new Sunbeam mixmasters.
I was checking on Dough making and was left absolutely flabbergasted to read that after the dough forms a ball you have to then HAND knead for 10-15 minutes.

Are they serious? Why buy a machine so you can have the priviledge of hand kneading for 15 minutes.

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Old 09-29-2004, 09:28 PM   #2
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Darned good question, WayneT!

I'm also a breadmaker and couldn't agree more with the simplistic approach you and oldcoot have taken. And I've followed...and copied and pasted...your entire bread success thread. Thank you for the insight there.

When it comes to mechanical kneading, I have yet to be failed by my bread machine. The ONLY thing I use it for is to mix and knead the dough, then go through the first rise cycle. After that, I restart the entire cycle to re-knead, then remove, form into loaves into REAL bread pans, allow to rise and bake in my own oven. Best of all, I can load the ingredients the night before, then set the machine in time for that first rise to be completed by the time I awaken. From there, I'm no more than 2 hours away from fresh bread.

Even though I have a KitchenAid mixer on steroids, I cannot imagine using it to make bread at the rate I do (3-4 times a week). To me, it just seems like too much strain on the motor. Regardless of its wattage, performance rating and ability, I'd rather stretch out its use as a mixer over the next 15 years.

Just my two cents worth. More than anything, thanks for the bread thread! Thanks also for taking responsibility for the humor threads, too!!! (Someone had to do it, you know.)
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:33 PM   #3
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Wow, that does suck swampwater, big time!

Obviously it just doesn't have the power to do the kneeding. If it's not too late to take it back - take it back and get a KitchenAid! Even a 5-qt Artisan model will kneed the dough for you.

Unlike Audeo - I only bake bread once or twice a week ... I have a 6-qt Pro KitchenAid - and I let it do all the work for me. That's why I bought it.
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:46 PM   #4
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Michael, I also have the 525 watt pro. What exactly is your take on the durability? Am I just paranoid (God, I LOVE my mixer!!!), or can this motor really handle the rate?
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:17 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in FtW
Wow, that does suck swampwater, big time!

Obviously it just doesn't have the power to do the kneeding. If it's not too late to take it back - take it back and get a KitchenAid! Even a 5-qt Artisan model will kneed the dough for you.

Unlike Audeo - I only bake bread once or twice a week ... I have a 6-qt Pro KitchenAid - and I let it do all the work for me. That's why I bought it.

I haven't actually purchased the Sunbeam yet. My Braun K1000 is just about ready for replacement and I have been checking out the Kitchen Aid, Kenwood and then the Sunbeam. I have been searching around for info on the capacity of the different mixers as my basic dough is about 2.25 kilos/4.5lb. with liquids added etc. This is when I stumbled upon a Sunbeam Instruction Manual and the rest is history.I like the big Kitchen Aids but in Australia the price is sky high.Even for the smaller ones.

I will look out for a second hand one. A replacement motor has not been investigated for my Braun but it is a pain in the neck cleaning wise.

Below is a quote from the Sunbeam Manual

Quote:
Step 2: Preparing the dough
Note: Ensure dough hooks are in place (refer
to page 5).
1.Place the dry ingredients into the
Mixmaster bowl and attach onto the base.
Turn the speed control dial to speed 1 and
begin to gradually add the liquid
ingredients to the bowl.
Note: You may find it useful to use a
rubber or plastic spatula to scrape the dry
ingredients from the side of the bowl
during the kneading process. Do not use
the spatula near or directly behind the
dough hooks. Use only a rubber or plastic
spatula and keep it well away from the
moving parts.
Safety Tip: Do not attempt to feed the
dough into the dough hooks with your
hands, spatula or any other utensil while
the mixer is plugged into a power outlet or
in operation.
2.As the ingredients start to form a ball,
scrape down the sides of the bowl if
necessary with a plastic spatula and
remove your dough.
Safety Tip: Do not use the mixer near the
edge of a bench or table top where it may
fall off.
3.Depending on what recipe you are making,
generally you will need to manually finish
the kneading of your dough. Place dough
onto a well floured work bench or surface
and knead until dough is smooth and
elastic. This should take approximately 10-
15 minutes.
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:32 AM   #6
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what a waste of money!
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:24 AM   #7
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Clearly I have never read my manual. :oops: I just toss my dough in and walk away until the timer beeps. Works for me.
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Old 10-01-2004, 07:24 AM   #8
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Bread machines are blasphemous.
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:37 PM   #9
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Not a bread machine jasonr, a mixmaster.
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Old 10-01-2004, 10:31 PM   #10
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Wayne, we have a Kitchen Aid - not sure of the model, but it is jst the usual home variety. It can easily handle the quantity of dough to which you refer - including kneading. To my B/W, the attraction was its versatility, as she is not into bread making - that's my department recently.

Here in the States it cos (as I recall) t about $240 U.S. If they are substantially more expensive in Australia, why hot have afriend here buy one for you and ship it? Unless customs is involved, that might be a more economical way to go.

Personally, since I have lately been working with softer doughs, and getting desired results most of the tiem, I don't find hand kneading that onerous - in fact I kind of enjoy it. So about half the time Idon't use the KA at all.


(STUPIDITY DEPT: A few months ago I thought our old KA - some twenty years old - was getting very noisy and about to fail, so dashed out and bought a new one - same model. The new one turned out to be just as noisy - not a darned thing wrong with the old one. B/W gave it away to a friend!!!_
But I realize that with the stiffer doughs kneading does become a real chore, so I don't blame you for looking for mechanization.
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Old 10-01-2004, 11:09 PM   #11
 
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Old Coot,
My main reason for the machine kneading is because of some health probs. A couple of minutes and my arms and shoulders are shot.
You mention the KA being noisy, have you ever heard a Kenwood Chef. Forget about anybody watching TV while it is on. Maybe their new electronic versions are good. My son should be going to the States next year on his way back from Cambodia, so If I am still in the market I will get him to look out for me.
I might just check out a new motor for my Braun, apart from being a pain cleaning it is a good strong machine. Might be just a bearing or something as it still works but every now and then it makes deep grinding noises. I would have bought a KA originally but I thought they were only for commercial use until I saw them in a store 6 months ago. I didn't even know what the brand name was until then.
All our TV chefs use them. But hey, that Sunbeam they're selling as a dough kneader seems to be a real lemon. Sunbeam tells me the info in the book regarding hand kneading is correct and they are sorry that their machine does not suit my needs. I let go with all four barrels in an Email back to them and told them they were being deceptive in their packaging and advertising material. Do they think the consumers are a bunch of idiots in as much as buying a machine that is supposed to knead dough and then find out you have to knead 15 mins by hand. Anyway I will tell as many people as possible through DiscussCooking and hope the word spreads.
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Old 10-02-2004, 07:25 PM   #12
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Wayne, you are the second person who has recently mentioned a physical problem with hand kneading. I will suggest to you, too, that dough can be just as effectively kneaded by squeezing or other manipulation, as all one is doing is stretching the glutn structures. I have had perfectly good results from kneading while sitting in my den watching TV. Squeeze, twist, stretch - any sort of movement that deforms the dough works quite well. probably a good idea to have an apron or other lap protection, I suppose. Especially is the dough is likely to become sticky and require a bit more flour. Or if you're a klutz like me who drops things. :)
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Old 10-02-2004, 08:57 PM   #13
 
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oldcoot, You are right, as if you notice in one of my previous postings I had to use the Food Processor which attaches to my mixer, to knead my last batch as I had broken my mixing bowl. I processed only for a minute or so all up as it started to over heat (only because the motor is carking it,). I had no alternative but to go with the flow. I chucked the 1 minute dough into my rising bowl and all went well. Continued on as usual and I can't tell the difference from the dough hook method. The cutting action of a Processor seems to do the trick. I remember when I had an old Breville Super Whiz the dough instructions were to process until a ball is formed, that is it. The Whiz made good dough but it wasn't as powerful as the 800watt Braun I use for handling large batches.
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Old 10-03-2004, 02:02 PM   #14
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I was looking at kitchenaids yesterday £300, so that is over $600 Australian dollars, and around $500 US. Ouch! I am stuck with handkneading for the time being. I am in search of a secondhand Kenwood. I know they are noisy (I remember mum using hers during Saturday afternoon movies, not only did the noise drown in it out, but the picture got disrupted by the darned thing)

For now I am stuck with handkneading.
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Old 10-03-2004, 05:14 PM   #15
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WOW - those prices are out of sight.

Ours is a KA "Artisan" 5 quart unit - it will easily handles a 7 cup of flour dough. Todays price here is $249.99 accirdubg ti tge ads,

I glanced at e-Bay just to check, and found it available for as little as 1s $127 US.

Unless customs is involved, buying one on e-Bay and having it shipped UPS or FedEx should save big bucks!

And it has a big stainless steel bowl, Wayne - unbreakable :D
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Old 10-03-2004, 08:07 PM   #16
 
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Old coot wrote:
Quote:
And it has a big stainless steel bowl, Wayne - unbreakable Very Happy
he! he! You wouldn't believe it but my Braun mixer bowl has a lid similar to the processor with a little lug that trips the safety switch as you lock the lid on. After mixing I always wash my gear straight away and put it on the draining rack. My kitchen is extremely small and I have a chest freezer that I use for a bench top and as I walk between it and the kitchen sink I have several times bumped the rack and the lid has fallen down and broken the lug off the lid. How many times have I said to myself that I must dry the lid and put it away immediately. I am starting to think that is aerodynamically designed to fall in such a way as to to snap that lug off! $14 AUD each replacement.
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Old 10-03-2004, 09:43 PM   #17
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Wayne, I have never seen a recipe call for more than 15 minutes kneading total (hand or machine) and most recipes call for half that amount. (5-7 minutes is standard in most bread recipes, both from professional and amateur cookbooks) Given this, it makes no sense that this Sunbeam would require 15 minutes on top of whatever time it takes to knead in the first place, unless the machine is somehow magically unkneading the dough. Assuming the machine works like a standard stand mixer (with the dough hook), I would simply ignore the instructions and do what you normally do. A little hand kneading at the end is useful, but not for more than a minute, if even that.

"I was looking at kitchenaids yesterday £300, so that is over $600 Australian dollars, and around $500 US. Ouch! I am stuck with handkneading for the time being. I am in search of a secondhand Kenwood. I know they are noisy (I remember mum using hers during Saturday afternoon movies, not only did the noise drown in it out, but the picture got disrupted by the darned thing)"

I purchased a 300W 4 quart Kitchenaid stand mixer for $350.00 CA (about $460.00 U.S.) from Williams Sonoma, and it is by far the best investment I have made for my kitchen. It is easily the most useful tool in my kitchen for everything from creaming large chunks of butter to whipping meringue, to kneading dough. It may seem like a steep price, but it is so indispensable, that you will wonder how you lived without it. You should really consider biting the bullet and just buying it; you won't be sorry. I can't comment on the cheaper models, but honestly, for something as fundamental as a stand mixer, I would not be counting pennies and looking for a bargain. Everyone I have ever spoken with agrees that Kitchenaids are supreme.
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Old 10-03-2004, 10:17 PM   #18
 
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Jasonr, I haven't actually bought the Sunbeam, I was doing a prepurchase check on it when I found out this info. The prob with Kitchenaid is not the exchange rate but someone is making a huge ripoff in the profit department in Australia. As I have stated the US$400 (approx) machine is AUD$1500 here. Yeah Kenwood might be the way to go.
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Old 10-03-2004, 10:21 PM   #19
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$1500 AU, versus $600 AU? That doesn't make any sense. Are you sure the model you saw was not the chrome plated version? Kitchenaid has a model that is identical to the entry-level model (the one I got, for $350.00 CA) that is chrome plated, and retails for about $750.00 CA. (about $1000.00 US) Its specs are identical except for the finish, so it would be easy to get them confused.
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Old 10-04-2004, 12:52 AM   #20
 
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jasonr,
Even if I did read it wrong, but I am sure I checked pretty well, could you imagine another $750 for a chrome finish? I might as well buy two units and keep one as a backup.
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