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Old 09-27-2004, 04:11 PM   #11
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I like the large bubbles/open texture of bread such a the vienna loaves you can buy at bakeries in Australia.....I miss Aussie bread, here the texture is horrible, really spongy and yucky. I aim for somwhere in between, which I think I am achieving now. What I am really pleased about is that my bread is still nice on day two, when I used to make bread, it was inedible on day two, really tough and the flavour was not nice.
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Old 09-27-2004, 07:56 PM   #12
 
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I have not fiddled with my recipe for at least 6 months purely because like your bread it is still good on day 2. It used to be good on day 3 but since my son and his wife are holidaying here from Cambodia it no longer gets to day 3.

Do you remember the bread rolls in all the Asian bakeries here. You know, with the super large holes, they are beautiful and crispy and when you break them open there is practically nothin but a shell. They go great for Vietnamese pork rolls, a real delicacy, have you tried them, only about $2 here. My Vietnamese mate Hoang who owned a restaurant reckoned he could open a bakery and make a motza. He said his people new the secret to getting more air into the bread. Sometimes I prefer more bread in the air.
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Old 09-28-2004, 03:45 AM   #13
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I love that syle of bread, we had a lone Vietnamese bakery in one of the suburbs of Hobart. We didn't have your cosmopolitan culture that you have in the big smoke!!!

In Manchester we don't have any Vietnamese people to speak of, however, there is a huge Pakistani/Indian community, West Indian, African and Chinese, with all their different breads. i love Indian naan bread, as long as it isn't too sweet!
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Old 09-28-2004, 10:23 AM   #14
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Hi :)

Kyles I love instant yeast too. It rises much better and gives all these bubbles you're talking about. The only drawback to instant yeast is it's yeasty flavor sometimes but I don't mind that at all. I also warm up my oven a little for the dough to rise but remember a fast rise isn't favorable for bread. So when I notice it's rising too quick, I take it out & place it in a cooler area to slow down the rise a little bit. One last thing I noticed is not to let the second rise be longer than 40 minutes.

Goodluck & congrats on your bread!
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Old 09-28-2004, 10:42 AM   #15
 
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Moonlight, I rise all my bread fast. I use instant yeast. I rise In sealed containers with hot steamy water. or in the sink covered with a sheet thick polythene. This simulates bakery proving ovens. No yeasty flavours, just perfect bread. I also quite often put the bread into a cold oven or a half heated oven when ready to bake. Try it, and report back here and let others know I was not spinning a tale. You will be pleasently surprised. This gives you time to get your next batch ready. I was sceptical at first. Got it from a bread book.
I think the main prob people have with homemade bread is that they get too technical. I also throw a cupful of water every so often into the oven or spray water in to simulate the humid bakery ovens.
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Old 09-28-2004, 12:06 PM   #16
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I like Waynet's mehod of speeding p rising time with a warm, humid condition. Makes sense - I must try it.

This thing about large air bubbles in bread escapes me. While I prefer a light, airy texture, those large bubbles have little flavor or nourishment, and stuff like jam drops through the holes, so what's the attraction? :D
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Old 09-28-2004, 12:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcoot
This thing about large air bubbles in bread escapes me. While I prefer a light, airy texture, those large bubbles have little flavor or nourishment, and stuff like jam drops through the holes, so what's the attraction? :D
right! yes! absolutely! couldn't agree more!

however, wish someone would weigh in on the "pro" side and tell us why s/he wants bread with holes in it. I'm clueless about the attraction.
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Old 09-28-2004, 01:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneT
Moonlight, I rise all my bread fast. I use instant yeast. I rise In sealed containers with hot steamy water. or in the sink covered with a sheet thick polythene. This simulates bakery proving ovens. No yeasty flavours, just perfect bread. I also quite often put the bread into a cold oven or a half heated oven when ready to bake. Try it, and report back here and let others know I was not spinning a tale. You will be pleasently surprised. This gives you time to get your next batch ready. I was sceptical at first. Got it from a bread book.
I think the main prob people have with homemade bread is that they get too technical. I also throw a cupful of water every so often into the oven or spray water in to simulate the humid bakery ovens.
I will definately try it Wayne !! I always felt that slow rise gives me better texture and flavor & I heard alot of chefs on Foodnetwork who agreed so I figured out it was better :? . So what is the average rising time you generally go for? For example, If i'm having a 3cup flour dough I would let it rise 2 hours, shape them and let it rise again 30-40 minutes max and bake.
I add some water or place a pan with ice water in the bottom of the oven sometimes to create a heavy crust, but I generally prefer soft moist bread :)
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Old 09-29-2004, 02:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlight
Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneT
Moonlight, I rise all my bread fast. I use instant yeast. I rise In sealed containers with hot steamy water. or in the sink covered with a sheet thick polythene. This simulates bakery proving ovens.
I will definately try it Wayne !! I always felt that slow rise gives me better texture and flavor & I heard alot of chefs on Foodnetwork who agreed so I figured out it was better :? . So what is the average rising time you generally go for? For example, If i'm having a 3cup flour dough I would let it rise 2 hours, shape them and let it rise again 30-40 minutes max and bake.
I used to try all sorts of ways to "help" my bread rise - you should have seen the contraptions I used to rig up! I gave up when the cat knocked over a sponge rising in a bowl on top of some books on top of the radiator. Quelle mess! But I can see if you always did it the same way, like Wayne's method, you'd have more predictability about how much time the rise takes.

Anyway, I've read that it's not so much time a rise takes but the amount - first rise in bowl dough should double, 2nd rise in bowl (if you do a 2nd rise) dough should be 1-1/2 times larger - the time it takes is the time it takes. I usually use less yeast than many recipes call for - for example, 2 tsp active dry yeast for a standard 2-loaf white bread recipe works fine for me.

...and we all know about putting the dough in the 'frig overnight, right? First time I read that one I thought "wow! neat trick! gotta try!" but the author neglected to mention that the dough will continue to rise in the 'frig. My bowl was too small so when when I opened the door the next morning the interior scene resembled an old horror movie - something like The Blob Returns (the 'fridge had wire racks too )
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:46 AM   #20
 
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subfuscpersona wrote: Anyway, I've read that it's not so much time a rise takes but the amount - first rise in bowl dough should double, 2nd rise in bowl (if you do a 2nd rise) dough should be 1-1/2 times larger - the time it takes is the time it takes. I usually use less yeast than many recipes call for - for example, 2 tsp active dry yeast for a standard 2-loaf white bread recipe works fine for me.
Spot on, but I think the 1 1/2 times might mislead (I may be wrong also) But by the time my bread rises in the tins it would be 1 1/2 times higher than when it went in. So with the original dough height it would be double and a half. Well I don't measure it with a ruler. With my mix I know that once it gets to the top of my tins, that's it. Throw away your clocks, forget about timing, If you were running a small home commercial bakery there may be some benefit.
Either develop your own recipe, modify someone elses or follow a tried and proven one and just let the bloody dough do what it has to do, DOUBLE in bulk. I have had dough go double and a half when I have been carried away posting stuff here, I am yet to work out what difference it made. I have had the dough rise in the tins so high it has flopped over the sides, I just rekneaded it and shot it in again. Rolling up the dough — yeah I used to do all that stuff. Now I just devide in to 4 bits and give a quick knead in my hands and chuck 2 bits in each large bread tin. still no adverse affects on rising. I like fast rising only because it saves me time, I have made my recipe Slow, Fast, Two, Three, and even four risings if I had to do other tasks. Bread still the same. I think sometimes people use these things to explain why they are successful and you are not. I use very cheap unbleached All Purpose flour that I get from Aldi's. Aldi stores are in most countries. Admittedly I add Gluten but even the commercial guys do, even with their stron flour, this% or that% protein etc etc.

I think too many people making bread at home blame everything on their disasters except the fact that their recipe is still in Beta testing format. I use instant yeast most of the time only because that is what is most commonly available. I have used both with equal results.

I find making bread is the best therapy around, I can really forget about my arthritic aches while baking or cooking. It's a real buzz when friends compliment you on the quality and taste of your bread. Bread making should be fun not full of technicalities and mumbo jumbo.

As I have said before try putting your bread in a cold oven and then setting the temperature. This is handy if baking several loaves as the first lot is cooked and the oven heated up ready for the second batch.
Or if your oven is only half warmed up and the bread is ready to bake, pop it in. For those who want to try my recipe but want white bread just leave out the bran and rye flour and add extra white.


HOW ABOUT THIS: Last night I decided to bake some bread but I forget I had broken the bowl on my mixer. Luckily it is a combi mixer/processor.. So I through everything (almost 2 kilos of mix, that's water included) into the processor. Instead of kneading as normal I just processed until it was all mixed in and hit it for about 30 seconds more. The motor got a little hot. End result: I can't tell the difference between my fully dough hooked bread and this super quick processor way. If anyone wants to try this I would suggest using half the mix that I did. Unless you have a large, powerful processor.


Motto from my previous life as a newspaper compositor: Bread is the staff of life, and the life of the staff is one big loaf!
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