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Old 04-21-2004, 12:18 AM   #11
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"Yeasts" do eat a lot of different things, but there are a lot of different yeasts, each with pretty much its own food preferences. Wine, beer, and bakers' yeasts are all probably strains of the same basic yeast - which requires simple carbohydrates such starches and sugars.

There is no yeast left in finished wine. When the alcohol level reaches a critical point, the yeast dies and settles to the bottom, and the clear wine is decanted. No live yeast in beer, either.

I wouldn't wager on whether wine or leavened bread came first. Yeasts are everywhere, grapes grow in only certain climes. But grain must be harvested, winnowed, and ground to make even a flat bread, while wine and/or vinegar can form from merely leaving grape juice stand, exposed tothe air. (Not a great wine, mind you, but wine, nonetheless.)

So if wet flour was left esposed, it, too, might be contaminated with yeast and thereby originate leavened breads. So either bread or wine could have occurred accidently quite earl;y in Man's history. Beer, made of fermented grains similarly attacked by airborne yeasts, might well have occurred at the same approsimate time.

Imagine how tricky it would have been for those early vintners, brewers and bakers to get just the contaminent they needed instead of those that are conducive to vinegar, mold, etc.

WHOOPS! I just thought of something: wine came first! I recall seeing birds, having partaken of over0ripe berries, totally bombed! :D So, since it occurs naturally, wine had to be first!
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:37 AM   #12
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Oh Indeed! I remember the birds feasting on Mountain Ash Berries (not fit for human consumption, mind you) which had fermented a bit due to a dry spell, and being quite besotted! What a sight!
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Old 07-17-2004, 07:34 PM   #13
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Well, I said I'd do it when my grapes ripenened. They have, and I did, and it worked!

I took a large bnch of my Thompson Seedless - they were a dull green rather than the shiny skin I'm accustomed to in the market. So I rubbed one and voila! Shiny. The dullness ust be yeast. So minsed the bunch with 1 cup of water, repeating two or three times, and brushing with a pastry brush to dislodge the yeast.

Then I added a tsp of sugar and 1/4 cup flour and let it stand, covereed, overnight. Next morning - disappointment: looked like nothing had happened. Except it had a faint aroma of yeast. So I added enogh flour to make a moderately soft dough, put it in a covered bowl, and after four hours, nuthin'!

The heck with it. I left it overnight.

When I looked at it this morning, my little ball of dough had filled the bowl - easily four times its original volume.

But now the dough was just plain wet! So I kneaded in more flour, finally getting a soft dough.

The loaf turned out just fine, and had a slightly nutty flavor - qite good.

So the answer is, as we already knew,: wine yeast works just fine. :)
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Old 07-25-2004, 08:59 AM   #14
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Oldcoot - That is splendid - can't wait to try in our grape growing season - Jan-March.
I worked in the wine idustry for some time, but never came across anyone baking bread with wine yeast. However, I am going to contact winemakers and hear if anyone can help. But here we have a tradition of baking rusks with fresh must. They are delicious, dried and eaten by soaking in your cuppa coffee. Visitors always leave the country with bags of rusks (the must ones are special and difficult to find, but others are made with yeast or bakingsoda and buttermilk).
The recipes for must rusks inlcude no other raising agent than the wine must (I can post recipe if anyone would be interested). So the same can be done for bread, without sweetening the dough. And this seems very similar to what Oldcoot achieved and proved.
As an alternative, when there is no longer must, raisins are used. These are crushed, boiled for ten mins. and when cooled down some yeast is added. The mixture is left for up to 30 hours when the reaisins float to the top and then used with the other ingredients.
Good cooking
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:53 PM   #15
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"Rusk" is anew term to me, MAWS - what are they? I'm not much for dnkin' abything in my coffee, but I'll try most anything once. Go ahead and post the recipe. Might be fun to try.

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Old 07-27-2004, 02:31 PM   #16
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Hi - Rusks, or the eating thereof probably sounds a bit vulgar to one who hasn't grown up with the stuff. Basically it's a sweetish bread/muffin, often made with flour and bran/muesli - for health. After the dough is mixed (it's thicker than a muffin mix) small pieces are formed into balls the size of a golf ball and then these are fitted closely in a buttered baking pan. Once they are baked, they're separated and dried in a very cool oven - usually overnight.
I baked a batch for me and the Grey One as well as for the grandchildren this afternoon. But I always look for short cuts and bake in bread pans and then cut them into longish squares. These dunk easily. After all, most of the shop-bought ones come in these shapes.
Stay well all
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Old 09-02-2005, 06:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooks Illustrated
Yeast has changed over the centuries. Until the 1700s, bread was produced from bitter beer or brewer's yeast (called barm, referring to the liquid in which yeast grows) or from fermented solutions of grains, potatoes, malt, or sugar. Each method was problematic and unpredictable. In the late 1700s, Holland became the first country to produce a compressed baker's yeast from spirit distilleries. The Viennese refined the process shortly thereafter.
You mentioned using your yeast in a bread machine. My guess is that your problem has more to do with timing than anything else. You're using yeast that's already done it's fermenting job, right? If the specific gravity of your wine has stabilized, that means most of the yeast that you're tossing probably isn't active/alive. I'd try to make a sponge (or pre-ferment) with the yeast:

Prepare ahead of time in a glass bowl 6oz (by weight) of the flour you're going to use, 6 oz (by weight) warm tap water, and the yeast. Cover with plastic wrap and puncture to add some vent holes. Leave yourself a six hour window for it to activate, bubble up, then slightly drop back. Then replace the yeast in your bread recipe with this sponge, and make as normal.

That's the full weight of my three batches of bread speaking.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:21 PM   #18
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See now, I like Matzo (the correct spelling). It is a recipe nearly 6000 years old. The magic of Matzo is the way it carries the tastes of the foods you put on it. Also, egg matzo, onion matzo and other flavored matzo’s are available. In addition to that you can make Matzo brie, a recipe that predates French toast by ohhhh maybe 4000 years. Easy to make: crumble the matzo in to pieces about the size of half dollar coin, mix egg and milk in equal parts and soak the matzo in the egg/milk mixture until it soaks in well, pour off the excess and then fry in a pan as you would scrambled eggs. Serve with a sprinkle of powdered sugar or maple syrup. Very very good.

SO open up your minds and try it. You'll like it.
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:00 PM   #19
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Er, wrong thread?
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:31 PM   #20
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There IS a difference in yeasts. Bakers yeast generates more CO2 and less alcohol. Wine makers yeast generates more alcohol and less CO2.

It's an interesting experiment to try to make bread using wine yeast. I guess you can expect it to be as successful as trying to make wine with bakers yeast...

The only alternative to yeast bread isn't matzo. Yeast is not the only leavening agent. You can make fine breads using chemical leaveners such as baking powder. Here's a very quick and very simple recipe for one:

Classic English Soda Bread

3 C Flour
1 1/2 tsp Baking Powder
1 1/2 tsp Salt
1 1/2 C Milk


Before you do anything else, preheat the oven to 425 F. Then collect the ingredients and begin the recipe. Otherwise, there won’t be enough time for the oven to reach temperature before you’re done. Plan on mixing the ingredients just before baking.

Combine the dry ingredients. Mix the milk in gently until blended.

Place the dough on an oiled cookie sheet. Shape it into a round loaf about 8 inches in diameter with a rounded top. Dust the top with flour.

Using a bread knife, make two cuts at right angles, edge to edge, on the top of the loaf. (about a quarter of an inch deep)

Cover with an inverted stainless steel mixing bowl. Bake 30 minutes.

Remove the bowl and bake for another 30 minutes.

Cool before serving.
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