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Old 03-25-2004, 08:24 PM   #1
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Making bread with wine yeast

Hi,

Quick question for you bakers. I'm a vintner and usually have a bunch of wine yeast left over after fermentation.

I recently purchased a bread maker, and today I tried making bread with Montrachet wine yeast. It didn't work (didn't really rise that much).

Store bought yeast is expensive (and it seems especially so when I throw away orders of magnitude more yeast than it takes to make bread).

Has anybody tried wine yeast to make bread? Is bread yeast the same as saccharomyces cerevisiae (wine yeast)? Maybe it's not as good a "bubbler" as bread yeast. Any thoughts?

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Old 03-26-2004, 06:39 AM   #2
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Jenni;
Much to my regret I am not a baker. I did think about this though and I may have a theory. One of our bakers can correct me if I am wrong (and you may already know the answer). It seems to me that bread (baking)yeast is designed to eat sugar and give off carbon dioxide whereas wine (or brewers) yeast is intended to eat sugar and give off alcohol. That could explain why the vintners yeast didn't work.
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Old 03-28-2004, 11:44 AM   #3
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Both wine and bakers yeasts convert sugars and simple starches (you know, those things we can no longer eat: CARBS!] and produce both alcohol and carbon dioxide.

I believe bakers' yeasts originated as wine yeasts, but have been modified through careful selection to become particularly active and appropriate for baking purposed.

Still, there is no reason why wine yeast should not work for bread making. My guess would be that perhaps more would be required for the same result. I would try doubling the amount called for in the recipe. I'm unsure as to the result of escessive yeast when using a bread machine, but in the "old fashioned" way, the dough simply rises faster and sometimes larger. The effect on flavor is slight.

Welcome to the board, and keep us posted on your efforts using wine yeast. We're interested. Recently we had a discussion about trying to use the yeast that naturally grows on the surface of grapes, so your input will be of particular interest.
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Old 03-29-2004, 09:05 PM   #4
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Darn, I just wrote a long reply, hit submit, and it didn't post. Bummer!

Anyway, YES, I'll keep you posted on making bread with wine yeast. Let’s see, what’d I say (after a bottle of wine, mind you!) Oh, yeah.

Hell, I like the taste of yeast (yeasties be my friends), so doubling up on the amount seems just fine to me.

Some thoughts...

Perhaps wine yeasts need more time for hydration and cell division (there's no need for fast action with wine) OR, maybe the wine yeasts just throw in the towel ‘cause they KNOW they’re gunna get cooked in a few minutes, instead of getting buzzed!... OK... nahhh). Maybe a longer rise would be beneficial, or maybe mixing the yeast in the warm water with a little honey or sugar added for food (contrary to the bread machine maker's recommendation to put the yeast in a dimple on top of the flour) might get them going stronger, especially if the whole wheat setting is used (on my machine it lets the mix sit for 30 minutes before mixing and kneading).

Or… how ‘bout using wine yeasts for a sour dough starter. Yumm!

Some more food for thought: different yeasts used in winemaking result in very different gustatory and sensory characteristics and are a major stylistic tool in winemaking (e.g. some yeasts consume more malic acid, while others produce more polysaccharides [resulting in a fuller palate weight or “sweetness”], etc.) Have you guys ever experimented with different bread yeast strains? ARE there different bread yeast strains available on the market?
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Old 04-07-2004, 07:47 AM   #5
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I have one question for all of you. Did you ever eat a bread without yeast? I didn't but would like to try though I'm not sure what it might be like. These days Jews eat it because they celebrate Pesah. Hehe, thank God it lasts for only seven days a year.
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Old 04-09-2004, 03:44 PM   #6
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Don't bother with matzah; it sucks big time. While I admit aesthetically, it has some appeal, and the texture can be interesting, the taste is scarcely better than cardboard.
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Old 04-09-2004, 04:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonr
Don't bother with matzah; it sucks big time. While I admit aesthetically, it has some appeal, and the texture can be interesting, the taste is scarcely better than cardboard.
I wouldn't go that far.. yeastless bread is very different. If all you compare it to the likes of french or sourdough bread, sure it's going to seem very odd. That said, not everything has to be a big puff of nothingness to be tastey. Try not to limit your thinking strictly in terms of good vs "sucks big time." Don't be afraid to open your minds a little bit :P
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Old 04-09-2004, 05:55 PM   #8
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Odds are all of you have eaten Mexican burritos - made with FLOUR tortillas -a flat, unleavened bread! And they taste pretty goo, too! The tortillas, I mean. I prefer corn tortillas, but that's beside the point.

The world is full of flat greads - matza;h is but one. Each has a somewhat diffeent flavor, depending upon ingredients, proportins, and baking methods. Just as a quick example, the flavor of a handmade flour toritlla is very different from that of machine made tortillas - vive l'difference!!
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Old 04-20-2004, 08:46 PM   #9
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Don't forget pitas... Very neat texture!

Beer predates wine, doesn't it? So wouldn't beer yeast have been the original bread yeast?

Beer yeast is still used by a lot of bakers who swear by it.
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Old 04-20-2004, 09:44 PM   #10
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I'm not much of a baker but I have read a bit about bread.....how about if you used the wine yeast as a starter and exposed it to the air to attract airborne yeasts? As in to make a starter? You would maintain the (since I love wine I would think wonderful) taste and add another dimension - or perhaps add just a little bit of baker's yeast to sort of give the wine yeast a kick start? Doesn't yeast eat pretty much everything in it's path once it gets started? I may be all wet about this but surely our resident bakers can correct me if I'm wrong!

Oohhh I wanna keep posted on this experiment!

Also if you buy good yeast in bulk (small amounts if you like) it will keep for a long long time properly refrigerated! I've had success with year old yeast kept that way.
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