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Old 07-07-2005, 09:28 AM   #31
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Saw your note

msalper - I saw an email in my inbox and since I didn't recognize who it was from, I deleted it. I think it was from you, now that I see your name - sorry about that - was just being cautious. - Sandyj
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Old 07-07-2005, 09:50 AM   #32
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No pb. Sandyj- It was about my msn address(msalper@hotmail.com) to talking more about pasties and sausages rolls. Because I everytime have question and I don't stop until I make a very good pasty. :) So if you have a msn you can add me.
Sorry admin. for that. This is not about discussion of cooking.
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Old 07-07-2005, 10:15 AM   #33
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Raw Raw Raw!!!

Raw veggies and meat are a must when making pasties. If you use pre-cooked you'll end up with mush.
The pasties bake in the oven for an hour so there is plenty of time for the chopped ingredients to cook. We recently had a pasties from a bakery north of Traverse City, took one bite and sent them back to the kitchen. They use pre-cooked ingredients and it was like eating paste surrounded by dough. Pasty and paste are NOT the same thing.
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Old 07-07-2005, 10:17 AM   #34
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Thanks Goodweed

Thanks so much for your kind invitation. I would look forward to meeting you. No need to feed us, although we eat anything and everything, but we can discuss this later. I hope our plans don't change.
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Old 07-07-2005, 10:19 AM   #35
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Glad you concur :D pahhhh stees, as the Cornish say is definitely NOT the same as paste! Precooked swede and potato would be a mushy mixture. Not the taste experience that a real pasty should be!
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Old 07-07-2005, 11:03 AM   #36
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Ingredients are OK. We must use raw one.

I will plan to open a cafe in here. And I must present delicious pasties and others to people ofcourse. After cooked my dough turn into a stone :) (I'm joking) Not stone but maybe soft wood :). Anyway.
How do you make your dough without handling? I don't have pasty blender. Maybe I should have one. After mixing flour and butter, I wonder what does "flour with butter" look like? Is it like a breadcrumb? Because I feel, I need to use my hands to crumble completely. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Old 07-07-2005, 11:30 AM   #37
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msalper

I've watched my gran many times make pastry by hand - she would first cut up the butter and lard into small pieces, put them into a chilled bowl - even putting little pieces of ice with the butter/lard to keep it from melting. As she would do this, she would say to me "cold hands? warm heart!".

Working quickly, with those cool hands, she would take a few pieces of butter/lard at a time and place it on the flour - picking up a bit of flour and a bit of butter/lard and "pinching" them together until it became crumbly (yes, like bread crumbs - maybe the pieces will be a little bigger than bread crumbs (peas)), but crumbly all the same. The flour, of course, had already been measured and set out in a little "hill" on her clean counter.

It's after this point where I think mine goes wrong - when I add the little bits of ice water, the dough is either too dry or too wet and sticky, and in panic, I "handle" it too much to fix. This is where I need practise with "feel".

When done, she would gather the dough up into a ball, and refridgerate for at least an hour before rolling out. The rolling out would be done on a clean, lightly floured surface - also working quickly with minimal handling of the dough.

There's a reason for all this 'coldness' - something to do with not allowing too much gluten to form, gluten being the thing that makes the pastry tough.

p.s. I've read that if you take the full amount of lard required and then, instead of just lard, use half that measurement in butter, and half lard, you'll get the good texture from the lard and good flavour from the butter. I think my gran used to just use butter. -Sandy
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Old 07-07-2005, 06:23 PM   #38
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My grandmother used to make the best shortcrust too. I have inherited the gift as well. It's one of those things thats just practice, practice, practice. Keep the kitchen cool is the first thing. I don't turn the oven on until the pastry is made and resting in the fridge. I keep the windows open. I don't make pastry in warm weather, so on a cool day I will make a few batches and put them in the freezer.

Everything Sandyj said is what I do. Cut the butter into cubes then rub into the flour til it resembles fine bread crumbs. You have to use your finger tips only and stop if your hands are getting too hot! My big tip is when you mix the water in, use a knife (bread and butter knife not a sharp one) and use a cutting action (I put the knife in the freezer first) Add the water a teaspoon at a time, and stop just as it starts to come together.

And on the pastie and sausage role topic, I like pasties best in shortcrust and flaky pastry for the sausage rolls. My favourite sausage rolls are from the deli in our village, he makes the greatest ones ever. I would love the recipe but it's secret!!!
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Old 07-07-2005, 06:33 PM   #39
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A tip from my Granny (and my mum's method, too) was to run the cold tap until the water was seriously COLD (and believe me, in Scotland that is REALLY cold!) and then allow it to play over the pulse points in your wrists for a few minutes... Don't know if there's any scientific reality behind it, but I always do it... it works for me
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Old 07-08-2005, 02:44 AM   #40
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Kyles: I have tried to make flaky pastry by using creme cheese instead of butter (half amount both of them). But it was not working for me. Maybe other things affected this. Do you have any clue about it? And in USA, you called "shortening" something I don't know. Could you please explain it to me? So maybe I can find it in here. I asked my friend who lives in Sanfranciso told me that "shortening" is like an additive for pastry, pie and tart dough.
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