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Old 12-13-2006, 03:24 PM   #1
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Rising issue

The first rise of my bread was pretty pathetic. Not double by any means. Did I kill the yeast (proofing too warm? too much salt?) old yeast? or was I not patient enough (only 45 minutes?)

I did a punch down and am on my second rise now. I'm hoping like heck it rises this time.

8 oz water
4 tbsp oil
3 tbsp honey
1.5 tbsp dry milk powder
2 cups flour
3/4 cup oatmeal
1/2 cup cracked wheat
1.25 tsp salt
1.5 tsp active yeast (my date says it is fine)

Usual bread making routine. Knead, rise, punchdown and shape into loaf, rise again and bake.

Help please?

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Old 12-13-2006, 03:49 PM   #2
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The bread I make most often is based on a recipe from The Breadbakers Apprentice and Reinhart recommends a first rise between 1 1/2 to 2 hr. If this is a recipe you are used to making are you accounting for slower fermentation due to the temperature in your kitchen being a little lower? Winter and all, you know.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:02 PM   #3
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Alix,
just let the bread do it's thing. Most expect it to rise right now and put it in a really warm place. Me, I prefer a longer cool rise from 1-6 hrs. I did A Jacques Pepin bread that took a long rise of 6-7 hours, let me tell you I loved it..Now I plan ahead and give the bread more time. let the 2nd. rise go and see what happens..say 1-1-1/2 hrs. If it's rainy or overcast it will rise slower.
kadesma Okay all that gab and yes the yeast could be old or water too hot, but, i'm inclined to thing not enough rise time.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:29 PM   #4
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Skilletlicker, this is a recipe I have made before, but I um...didn't take into account the weather. Oops. LOL!! I usually proof in the oven after I have had it on for a bit so figured it would be OK. I think you might have hit the nail on the head there. I always forget to take into account the weather (clear but a bit humid, we are having snow off and on today) when I bake bread. Thanks for the reminder.

kadesma, I'm in the middle of the second rise right now and it looks like it is going fine. I think I am going to let it rise til it looks right then bake it. I checked the date, yeast SHOULD be fine. I was worried my oven might have been too warm to start the proofing, but it cools off pretty quick this time of year.

Do you really use such a long rise time? I never really considered that as an option. You could start your bread in the morning, let it go almost til dinner and then have fresh bread at dinner. Hmmm. Is that recipe posted somewhere? Can you tinker with it (add cracked wheat or sunflower seeds etc.)?
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:20 PM   #5
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Kadesma and others have good suggestions. Fermentation is the process that takes place when dough sits, covered at room temperature. The professional baker calls this stage fermentation because the yeast is feeding on the sugars in the flour and fermenting. The dough rises because the gluten structure developed in the mixing process captures the alcohol and carbon dioxide gases released by the yeast in the dough. If you've ever uncovered a bowl of dough that has been sitting for an hour or two,you've smelled the alcohol that has built up as the dough has fremented. Like wine and cheese,with which bread marries so well, bread dough developes its taste through fermentation.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:36 PM   #6
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Dropped in to point my finger at the kitchen temperature, but I see that's already been figured out. Since I'm here, I'll comment on the question about a slow rise targeted to match dinner time. Theoretically it could be done, but getting the timing just right would be tricky, for much depends on the precise room temperature.

OTOH, while a single rise might be tricky, I've found that bread dough is quite tolerant of multiple rises. (For me, this has come up mainly because I was distracted by something else and didn't have time at the moment to deal with the bread.) That is, if each time it doubles, you punch down and give a brief knead, you can repeat the cycle at least over the time frame you have in mind. And, if your kitchen is below 70 degrees F (21 C?), it probably won't double more than three times anyway.

Another way to do this, btw, is to prepare the dough the night before (even a couple days before) and place in the fridge; before going to bed, punch down and cover again. Next day (i.e., baking day), take out of the fridge a few hours before baking. After two hours, punch down, shape loaves and put up for the final rise. Bake as usual.
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:51 PM   #7
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Alix, the day I did this bread we did have it with supper, but,it has to sit at least 3 hours to cool down after baking..It's a large 2lb. loaf,..BUT, If you are up early, give it a try for that evening, like I said, I used mine on the same day ..I just had the fun of playing with it all day long Just remember it won't eat you up even though you have to make it in a plastic bucket
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:08 PM   #8
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Aria, thanks for the info on fermentation, I did know that already as I've been baking for 20 years or more.

Pbear42, thanks for the info on double and triple rising. I've not been adventurous enough to allow several rises. And our house is generally kept a bit on the chilly side (68) as I'm rather prone to being hot.

kadesma, *whining* Does it HAVE to sit for 3 hours???? Dang it, I have just enough time to try your recipe if it doesn't have to sit. PHOOEY! I think I'm going to try it now anyway. LOL.

While I have your attention, what temp can I proof at without killing the yeast? As I mentioned I usually put the dough in my oven to proof after I turn the oven off. Can I proof at 150 or is that too hot?
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alix
While I have your attention, what temp can I proof at without killing the yeast? As I mentioned I usually put the dough in my oven to proof after I turn the oven off. Can I proof at 150 or is that too hot?
Alix, I don't think 150 will work. I've heard that about 80F is optimum. I came across this site on the topic of Proofbox temperatures, heat flow in ovens. It says in part:
Quote:
The results in loaf volume are instructive, as seen in the table ("Loaf Volume at Various Proofing Temperatures"). It was reported that as proof temperatures increased the crumb grain and texture of the bread declined in quality.
Now, I'm not smart enough to fully understand everything here, but notice in the chart the steadily decreasing volume in cubic centimeters as the proofing temperature increases. The chart only goes to 125F.

Edit: Forgot to include the link. Sorry, it's added now.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:35 PM   #10
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think of it like brewing Ale except it has Gluten in it to make it Gloopy.
the similarities are so close you can`t go wrong (yeast/sugar/temp) wise :)
as for salt, get that well mixed in the Dry parts before adding the Must.
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