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Old 06-01-2008, 02:01 PM   #31
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A lot of effort if you have to untie them, then tie them back again - especially boots. Teen boys like to wear baggy pants and boots. No one to date has tried that, and even then, when RR did it, he was in London, I think.

Remember, over there, security checks at the airports at the time, were much more lax than over here. Probably the reason why a lot of planes were hijacked or bombed there and elsewhere overseas over the years.

Haven't you also heard that now, people on board a plane have begun to fight back, beginning with Flight 93, though the plane was crashed into the ground anyway? Same thing with RR. Aside from his shoes being wet, he was subdued by the passengers, restrained and held captive until the plane landed here.

But one has to wonder; "What if his shoes were dry? What if he sucessfully lit the fuse?"

It would be a little bit far-fetched for another possible 09-11-style attack in my book because terrorists usually don't try the same thing twice. At least not yet for an attack of this magnetude. Remember the first WTC bombing and the Oklahoma City? Did you ever hear of that happening again anywhere other than the subway / train bombings in Madrid and London?

Oh. I forgot. Sorry. There ACTUALLY WAS another 09-11-style attack. It occured in Tampa, but is was a small single-engine plane. A teen who said that he worshipped Osama bin Laden, had stolen a plane, took off with it and deliberatly crashed it into a small office tower there, killing himself. But the boy had behavioral problems.

I'm always cautious at the airports. I was the last time that I've flown to SC. I was when
a friend and myself flew to Las Vegas. We stayed on the plane to avoid being security-checked in the gate room during the layover in Dallas.

Yes, you're right! Terrorists just don't care who they maim or kill to get what they want done. They also don't even sleep. If they do, then another group is on duty to help devise an evil plan to attack.

But even if they didn't take anything onto the planes, there are tons of stuff that they might have grabbed from the galleys to use as weapons. But I wonder if the air marshals are still on the planes to help protect the passengers.
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:28 PM   #32
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A lot of effort if you have to untie them, then tie them back again - especially boots.
Wait let me get this right. Because it takes "a lot more effort to untie and tie your shoes" you would rather we would not be forced to do that? You do realize that if that were the case then another shoe bomber could just stroll right onto the plane unchecked right? Oh, but that is OK because we wouldn't want to have to untie and then retie our shoes one more time in the day. That would just be unreasonable.


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Haven't you also heard that now, people on board a plane have begun to fight back, beginning with Flight 93, though the plane was crashed into the ground anyway? Same thing with RR. Aside from his shoes being wet, he was subdued by the passengers, restrained and held captive until the plane landed here.
So what you are saying is that since people now fight back we should just rely on that instead of stopping the problem at the airport? Just let them on the plane and when they try to pull something then beat the heck out of them? Not the smartest plan of action in my book.

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But one has to wonder; "What if his shoes were dry? What if he sucessfully lit the fuse?"
You don't have to wonder at all. If he were successful then the plane would have been blown up and hundreds would have died a horrible death. Why would you not want to simply take your shoes off to try to prevent that from happening?

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It would be a little bit far-fetched for another possible 09-11-style attack in my book because terrorists usually don't try the same thing twice.
Yeah tell that to all the hundreds of suicide bombers. No you are right they never try the same thing twice.

It just boggles my mind that you would not want to take a couple of extra moments to help ensure you do not die. Claiming that it is too much effort to take off your shoes is just plain lazy IMO and if you are disabled and unable to physically do it then there are people there who would help you and do it for you. Isn't it worth your life to be inconvenienced just the slightest bit?
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:49 PM   #33
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GB - If I have to fly, then so be it. I have two artificial hips and can't go through a metal detector. What I go through is humiliating. I cannot believe that explosives cannot be detected, or close enough to trigger a search without taking shoes, belts, etc.. off.

If I remember correctly, the 9-11 hijackers took control of the planes by using plastic or nylon weapons that can easily be hidden in body cavities that are not searched normally.

Enough things get by airline security that it is little but innefective.

Lest you think that I am just a sourpus, I will submit to any type of security inspections that work, I really don't care how long it takes. What I am subjected to now is humiliating and ineffective. In short, what we are doing, is not working. Yes, take the time for security, but, let's have security that works. BTW did you know that you can buy your way through security with a clear card? The Longest Airport Security Waits -- And How to Skip Them
or Clear Registered Travelers Fly Through Airport Security

Fuel costs - Well, you are right fuel costs are going up and so must everything that used fuel. Counterpoint, I read last week that enough people stayed home over Memorial day that the airlines lost 18 billion. Far as I know it does not cost more to run the plane for coach passengers than others, coach bags od not weigh more than first class bags. How about equitable treatment?

A good point was made that the extras are being imposed on coach class passengers and firt class and business travelers are status quo.

I remember "People Express" they treatd an airplane like a bus. Want a sandwitch, buy it, etc.. No first or business class. Low fares and they got you there. they did well till they bought Southwest and tried to go for the frills.
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:59 PM   #34
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If I remember correctly, the 9-11 hijackers took control of the planes by using plastic or nylon weapons that can easily be hidden in body cavities that are not searched normally.
This is true, but not all attacks have to be identical to the 9-11 attacks. Shouldn't we do everything we can to stop any kind of attack?


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What I am subjected to now is humiliating and ineffective.
There is no excuse for that. They should be treating you with the respect that you deserve. They should be able to do their inspections without humiliating anyone.

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Far as I know it does not cost more to run the plane for coach passengers than others, coach bags od not weigh more than first class bags. How about equitable treatment?
Why should it be equitable? Are the coach passengers paying the same amount as the first class passengers? No they are not. They are paying substantially more. For that extra price they are paying they get extra perks. That is why they choose to pay extra. Those tickets are available to anyone who would like to buy them. If you don't want to pay the baggage fee then you are more than welcome to buy a first class ticket and pay an extra $500 or so for that "perk".
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:19 PM   #35
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I'm flying tomorrow so airlines are on my mind..

Peoples Express, oh my, I haven't thought of that airline in quite a while. I flew it ONCE and swore that no matter how poor I was, I would never fly that airline again. Of course they lost my luggage, for one week. They hired a courier service to deliver my luggage, who called and wanted to meet me half way (one hour drive) i said, I don't think so...can you imagine..

I have no problems with the security systems. I seem to travel on a regular basis and was flying October 5 2001. So I have seen the transformation of the boarding systems. I have seen the patience of the public beginning to wain. The commradery of the post-9/11 is gone to some degree.

We don't need a wake up call on this one folks. I agree that we do not have the most efficient system in place, but we need to cooperate with what we have.
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:22 PM   #36
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Wait let me get this right. Because it takes "a lot more effort to untie and tie your shoes" you would rather we would not be forced to do that? You do realize that if that were the case then another shoe bomber could just stroll right onto the plane unchecked right? Oh, but that is OK because we wouldn't want to have to untie and then retie our shoes one more time in the day. That would just be unreasonable.


So what you are saying is that since people now fight back we should just rely on that instead of stopping the problem at the airport? Just let them on the plane and when they try to pull something then beat the heck out of them? Not the smartest plan of action in my book.

You don't have to wonder at all. If he were successful then the plane would have been blown up and hundreds would have died a horrible death. Why would you not want to simply take your shoes off to try to prevent that from happening?

Yeah tell that to all the hundreds of suicide bombers. No you are right they never try the same thing twice.

It just boggles my mind that you would not want to take a couple of extra moments to help ensure you do not die. Claiming that it is too much effort to take off your shoes is just plain lazy IMO and if you are disabled and unable to physically do it then there are people there who would help you and do it for you. Isn't it worth your life to be inconvenienced just the slightest bit?


It's not just the shoes. That's probably the least thing.

It's mainly the humiliating process that people are forced to go through to get through security and onto the planes.

Yeah, you're probably going to say that it's better to be safe than sorry, and that's true, but how much is a person supposed to take from the sergents at the airports? When is enough enough?

Don't you also know that they've made some of the people go behind a partition in the gate room and strip down to their underwear, even while their flight is boarding? How sad is that?

Why I just don't fly until and unless I absolutely positively have to.
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:27 PM   #37
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It's not just the shoes. That's probably the least thing.

It's mainly the humiliating process that people are forced to go through to get through security and onto the planes.

Yeah, you're probably going to say that it's better to be safe than sorry, and that's true, but how much is a person supposed to take from the sergents at the airports? When is enough enough?

Don't you also know that they've made some of the people go behind a partion in the gate room and strip down to their underwear, even while their flight is boarding? How sad is that?

Why I just don't fly until and unless I absolutely positively have to.
This is the first time you have mentioned being humiliated. All the other posts you were talking about being inconvenienced. Seems like you are changing your stance mid stream.

So just what exactly are these humiliating things you have had to endure?
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:29 PM   #38
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Too many. Let's just say that I don't fly because it's too much of a hassle at the airports.
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:34 PM   #39
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Too many.
That is a cop out. You don't have to name them all. Just name a few. Pick the top three most humiliating.

Here is my experiences at the airport since 9-11. I take off my shoes as I walk through a metal detector. One out of every 10 or so trips I am pulled aside in a private room while security looks through my carry on. I then board the plane.

Do I like being searched? Of course not. Do I want them to stop doing it? Not if it catches even one person planning on doing something bad.

There is nothing humiliating about what I have described above. What have you gone through that has been humiliating Corey?
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Old 06-01-2008, 04:09 PM   #40
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I'm trying to bow out of this gracefully, but you won't let me;

After waiting in long lines;

Emtying my pockets, taking my shoes off, going through the detector and the alarm still sounds, searched some more, let go, put my shoes back on, return the stuff to my pockets, called over by another TSA worker, asked to empty my pockets again, asked to open the carry-on for strange-looking stuff, cleared for that, put stuff back in pockets, bask to go through the detector again after taking shoes off again, empying pockets again for the third time in a row, and then after all that, my boarding pass gets checked.
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