Brown Recluse Spider

[Fisher's Mom]

Yes,go to the doctor to make sure.I once got a spider bite that was so bad I could have sworn it was a Brown Recluse it turned out to just a really really bad spider bite.I had no idea they can get this bad.

But this is because of your bad bug karma, jp!

 

[jpmcgrew]

But this is because of your bad bug karma, jp!

ProbablyI already have bad bee karma

 

[Ol-blue]

My nephew was bitten by a brown recluse and he had to go in daily to a wound care clinic and have the dead tissue cut out. He let it go hoping it would get better but the pain was getting so bad he had to go see his Doctor.
Don't let it go.

 

[Indigo_Swale]

If you are in Florida, it is highly unlikely that you have been bitten by a brown recluse spider. Check the range maps. And google "brown recluse spider distribution" or "myth of the brown recluse". You will find a number of articles in which arachnologists state that these spiders are either "absent from" or "extremely rare" in Florida.

I have read several articles about the frequency with which idiopathic necrotic wounds are misdiagnosed as spider bites. There's no way to test for spider venom, so oftentimes physicians, not being entomologists, will fall back on the "spider bite" explanation if the patient suggests it.

If you have been bitten by an arthropod of some sort, it is much more likely to have been a critter that seeks blood meals from humans--a tick, bedbug, flea, or assassin bug, for example. There are also many other possible causes of bite-like lesions and necrotic wounds.

If your doctor agrees that you have been bitten by a brown recluse, he is almost certainly wrong. Make sure that he considers other possible causes of your lesion and does not simply fall back on the usually-incorrect "spider bite" diagnosis because it is easier than searching for the actual cause.

Keep an eye on the wound. Watch for any changes. Most likely it's nothing serious, but if it gets worse rather than better over the next few days, make sure you have it examined by a knowledgable dermatologist.

Take care!

[p.s. I got some of this information from an article by Richard S. Vetter, of the Entomology Dept at UC Irvine. I can't post the link here, but you can google his name to find it.

[Also, I currently work as a biologist in an entomology lab. ]

 

[keltin]

Actually the BR is in Florida.

The brown recluse spider, Loxosceles reclusa Gertsch & Mulaik, is frequently reported in Florida as a cause of necrotic lesions in humans. For example, in the year 2000 alone, Loft (2001) reported that the Florida Poison Control Network had recorded nearly 300 alleged cases of brown recluse bites in the state; a subset of 95 of these bites was reported in the 21 counties (essentially Central Florida) under the jurisdiction of the regional poison control center in Tampa.

And here is the case and first hand testimony of a victim (with GRAPHIC pictures) of someone bitten in Florida. Looking at these photos and the necrotic tissue damage, there is no denying it was the BR.

Notice this victim says:

“Well, well, well. Here I am again writing the story of how someone in my family was bitten by a brown recluse spider. A spider the experts claim does not exsist in my area.”


The wikipedia map showing the BR area of habit is wrong.

 

[VeraBlue]

From what I recall from a science show recently.....you really should go to the doctor. Soon.

 

[middie]

If you are in Florida, it is highly unlikely that you have been bitten by a brown recluse spider


Highly unlikely yes. But is does and did happen. His aunt had the spider with her and it was possitively identified as a b.r.

 

[Indigo_Swale]

Actually the BR in Florida.

The brown recluse spider, Loxosceles reclusa Gertsch & Mulaik, is frequently reported in Florida as a cause of necrotic lesions in humans. For example, in the year 2000 alone, Loft (2001) reported that the Florida Poison Control Network had recorded nearly 300 alleged cases of brown recluse bites in the state; a subset of 95 of these bites was reported in the 21 counties (essentially Central Florida) under the jurisdiction of the regional poison control center in Tampa.

Um....If you actually READ the page you quote above, you will see that the very next sentence says that not a single specimen of L. reclusa has ever been collected in Tampa.

The whole point of the page is to say that despite the number of reported "brown recluse bites", there is very little evidence that the necrotic lesions observed in those patients were actually caused by these spiders.

The article says that the only recorded instances of L. reclusa in the state of Florida come from a few isolated specimens, and a couple of populations in single buildings, which were most likely transported from places where the species is more common, and which were subsequently eradicated.

So, yes, there is a remote possibility that you could be bitten by a brown recluse spider in Florida. But, as I said, it is extremely unlikely.

And here is the case and first hand testimony of a victim (with GRAPHIC pictures) of someone bitten in Florida. Looking at these photos and the necrotic tissue damage, there is no denying it was the BR.

How can you say that? There are all kinds of conditions that can cause necrotic tissue damage like that. The mother mentioned that the child was found to have staph--how do you know that the staph was not the cause of the necrosis and kidney failure rather than a sequela from a spider or insect bite?

The ONLY way to know for SURE that you have been bitten by a brown recluse is to catch the spider in the act and to bring it to an arachnologist or entomologist for positive ID.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to identify spiders to species? You absolutely MUST use a microscope, even to reliably identify most specimens to the family level, let alone genus and species.

The wikipedia map showing the BR area of habit is wrong.

No, it's not. Though some isolated specimens and small populations (i.e. occupying a single building) have been found outside of the range, the range accurately shows where established breeding populations of this spider are known to occur. And because it is of medical significance, its whereabouts are pretty well known to the people who study these things.

 

[keltin]

Um....If you actually READ the page you quote above, you will see that the very next sentence says that not a single specimen of L. reclusa has ever been collected in Tampa.

The whole point of the page is to say that despite the number of reported "brown recluse bites", there is very little evidence that the necrotic lesions observed in those patients were actually caused by these spiders.

The article says that the only recorded instances of L. reclusa in the state of Florida come from a few isolated specimens, and a couple of populations in single buildings, which were most likely transported from places where the species is more common, and which were subsequently eradicated.

So, yes, there is a remote possibility that you could be bitten by a brown recluse spider in Florida. But, as I said, it is extremely unlikely.




How can you say that? There are all kinds of conditions that can cause necrotic tissue damage like that. The mother mentioned that the child was found to have staph--how do you know that the staph was not the cause of the necrosis and kidney failure rather than a sequela from a spider or insect bite?

The ONLY way to know for SURE that you have been bitten by a brown recluse is to catch the spider in the act and to bring it to an arachnologist or entomologist for positive ID.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to identify spiders to species? You absolutely MUST use a microscope, even to reliably identify most specimens to the family level, let alone genus and species.



No, it's not. Though some isolated specimens and small populations (i.e. occupying a single building) have been found outside of the range, the range accurately shows where established breeding populations of this spider are known to occur. And because it is of medical significance, its whereabouts are pretty well known to the people who study these things.

Ok. Living in Alabama, which most say is not the home of the BR, I've seen it and have had friends biten by it. Confirmed. Fact. And then I read facts from first hand victims in Florida. Want to call them a liar....well email 'em.

 

[Katie H]

Okay, let's chill a little here. This discussion doesn't need to get into a "knowledge" contest.

Doesn't matter whether the spider is in Florida or not. What matters is that it IS possible that Renee could have been bitten by one. Don't forget that it takes only one egg in thousands for a person to contract salmonella poisoning.

Okay, everyone back to your corners.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

I agree that the cause is less important than is the treatment. It may indeed be true that the BR is rare in Alabama and Florida. I may be true that Keltin does have valid evidence of the critter living and causing minor havock in his home state and Florida. But what I now is true is that Renee does have a problem that needs attention.

Renee; you are doing what you are supposed to be doing and I hope that whatever is the cause of your injury can be treated quickly and that you heal completely. Just remember, we here are members of cyberspace. We know much, but you have no way of knowing just what I am an expert at, and what I am not an expert at. And even if I were an expert, I am still a person, fully capable of making mistakes, especially when I am presented with incomplete information, as are all of us on this site.

I would not ever try to pass myself off as an expert on spiders, though I have studdied them off and on. I have seen pictures of teh violin, or banjo spiders, including the black widow, the brown recluse, and the banjo spider, all of which can be dangerous. I also know that the banjo spider is responsible for many of the bites attributed to the brown recluse. But again, that is just another possibility. See your doctor. Don't let him/her make snap judgements. Insist on finding out what ails you and get it fixed. That's all you need to know.

Oh, and I am an expert pancake maker, and sometimes, rarely, but somtimes, I even get my pancakes wrong.

Seeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

 

[Indigo_Swale]

My concern was that misinformed doctors might misdiagnose Renee's lesion as a spider bite and that the misdiagnosis might cause a delay in appropriate treatment.

I'm not a doctor, but this is something that arachnologists talk about a lot; it's sort of a pet peeve of theirs that doctors often go with the "spider bite" diagnosis and miss the real cause of the lesion. And as any fan of "House" knows, any misdiagnosis can be dangerous!

I just didn't want Renee--or her doctor--to jump to the conclusion that it was a brown recluse bite when another cause is more likely.

Sorry if I came across as an obnoxious know-it-all. That was not my intent. I'm just an insect-and-spider geek; didn't mean any harm.

Renee, I hope you are feeling better, and I hope it is not anything serious, spider bite or otherwise.

 

[lyndalou]

Run, don't walk to your doctor appointment. These bites can be very dangerous.

 

[Constance]

We have plenty of brown recluse spiders in this area, and I've seen some awful looking bites. I've had two, possibly three bites, but I'm not very allergic, although each was a little worse than the first, and took a long time to heal up. I think it may make a difference where you are bitten, also. A friend of mine was bitten by one who was in her blouse when she put it on, and the bite was right at the juncture of two veins on the bottom side of her upper arm. It was horrible looking...made a giant purple blister that ended up taking out all the skin almost to the elbow. The doctor at first thought she'd need skin grafts, but because she was only 20, it healed well and she didn't need them after all.
Last week my daughter cleaned out my upstairs closets for me, and came downstairs with a plastic bag that had a couple of dead spiders in it. She worked for Terminex for over 10 years, and she knows her stuff. She said when she spotted the hinged legs, it caught her attention, and sure enough, there was the little violin. She suggested we spray.

 

[sparrowgrass]

Indigo Swale, I was glad to see you inject (ouch) a little scientific knowledge into this discussion.

My house is full of brown recluses--they are the most common house spider around here (Missouri Ozarks). I don't know anyone personally who has had a necrotizing wound from a brown recluse, and my family has lived in this area forever.

Most doctors don't know squat about entomology, and they misdiagnose necrotizing wounds as spider bites.

California, for example, has a very high number of reported brown recluse bites, and very very tiny number of actual verified brown recluse spiders, because THEY DON'T LIVE THERE.

From the University of California at Davis
Brown Recluse and Other Recluse Spider Management Guidelines--UC IPM (and a similar article from Florida 2004 - Bronson Urges Closer Consideration:

"There are fewer than 10 documented cases of the spider being collected in California, spanning more than 4 decades, typically in facilities that receive goods from out of state. Searching the immediate area yielded no additional brown recluses and therefore they were considered to be individual stowaways.

Undoubtedly, more brown recluses have been inadvertently brought into the state via commerce and the relocation of household belongings; however, amazingly few specimens have ever been collected. Never have any of these translocated spiders been able to establish a foothold and start a population in California.

Considering that there are millions of brown recluses cohabiting with people in the southcentral Midwest and brown recluse bites are only an occasional occurrence there, California does not have anywhere near sufficient populations of these spiders to be responsible for the number of cases or illnesses that are attributed to them.

MEDICAL MISDIAGNOSES

One reason for the great "awareness" of the recluse spiders throughout the United States is that necrotic wounds are misdiagnosed as "brown recluse bites." Although recluses can cause these wounds, the biological data involving the distribution of the spider indicate that most of these diagnoses are incorrect.

A world-renowned toxicology physician who worked at University of Southern California Medical Center estimates that most spider bites in California referred to him were actually the work of other arthropods and that 60% of "brown recluse spider bite" diagnoses came from areas where no Loxosceles spiders were known to exist.

Nationwide, some "brown recluse bites" were subsequently correctly diagnosed as Staphylococcus infection, Streptococcus ("flesh-eating bacteria") infection, Lyme disease, herpes simplex, diabetic ulcer, or bites from bedbugs, mites, ticks, small wasps, biting flies, or other spiders.

In addition, in one case where the offending spider was killed in the act of biting, a Californian doctor misidentified the spider as a brown recluse even though the spider had eight eyes, stripes on the cephalothorax, a patterned abdomen, and spines on the legs.

In any event, 90% of all brown recluse bites in the Midwest heal without severe problems and millions of people have lived there for years without experiencing bites."

 

[Renee Attili]

Wow, I didn't mean to stir the pot with this thread!
First of all I want to thank everyone for their stories, advice and concern about my bite.
Went to the Dr.'s this morning and she did agree it was a spider bite of some sort, but admitted she couldn't tell for sure what kind. She did say it was a good thing I didn't put off coming in. I am on antibiotics, and have to go back once a day until Friday and again on Monday for her to check on it. She is a little concerned that I do spend a lot of time at my barn in less than sterile conditions though. She says to keep it bandaged and wear a surgical glove while at the barn to make sure that no barn grime gets into it.

Thank you again guys for all your input. I felt better going this morning because of your words of experience and wisdom.

 

[Callisto in NC]

Glad you went. One thing that the scientific info fails to touch on is individual sensitivity to spider bites. I got bit by a recluse, saw it happen, went immediately to first aid and was asked "why did you wait until you got here to have someone look at it?" It was that big within 5 minutes and a small crater was forming. We got it cleaned and antibiotic ointment on it fast enough that it didn't get too much worse. I react badly to any bite, they get very big and red. I have to keep up on my tetanus shots because of it.

Anyway, I'm glad you went. Keep it clean and dry.

 

[Fisher's Mom]

Renee, so glad you got checked out and things are OK. You didn't stir up a hornet's nest. I think there is lively discussion about things like this because it's stuff we all worry about or have experience with from time to time. And you know, we probably all learned some things in this thread that may serve us well some day. So really, you did a public service for your fellow DCers by sharing!!!

 

[shakenbake]

I'd go see the doc regardless if it was or wasn't a brown recluse. You don't want to take the chance of infection.

 

[expatgirl]

Glad to hear that all is going well, Renee, and do please be careful in your barn. Thanks for your update. 15 years ago I was bitten by a spider in Lousiana (the doctor could see the circular mark left by the spider's mouth) and already 24 hours later septicemia (blood poisoning was setting in---you could see the red streak moving up my leg). He told me that spider bites are terribly filthy and infectious as a result. It doesn't have to be a brown recluse to cause possibly major problems. And with the "flesh-eating, antibiotic resistant bacteria--aka staph aureus" out there it pays to be on the safe side whether it's a spider bite or not. I think going to your doctor to play it safe is always advisable. And the more info that they have to work with the better.