DC Discussion of Coroners, Etc...

[Addie]

Well, I found out today the reason for the pressure on the family to vacate the residents apartment.

I went down to sign my yearly renewal papers. It seems that HUD has changed the rules. It appears our families only have 14 days to vacate the apartment of our belongings now. Otherwise they will start at a prorated amount, start charging market price for the apartment after 14 days. It will come out of the deposit.

 

[cave76]

Well, I found out today the reason for the pressure on the family to vacate the residents apartment.

I went down to sign my yearly renewal papers. It seems that HUD has changed the rules. It appears our families only have 14 days to vacate the apartment of our belongings now. Otherwise they will start at a prorated amount, start charging market price for the apartment after 14 days. It will come out of the deposit.

Well that just sucks!

 

[Oldvine]

I would assume the rent on the apartment would still be paid during the cleaning out period. I don't think it would be fair for the landlord to be a free storage unit of the property of an estate. We continued to pay the utilities, taxes, alarm and insurance on my mother-in-law's house until it was empty.
That being said, I know my son could never clean this place out in 30 days. If he worked at it, maybe 30 weeks.

 

[Kayelle]

Since my dearest friend lives in one of these government subsidized apartments, and the square footage is very small, I don't think it's unreasonable to have it vacated within two weeks. The waiting list is very long, and the need is great for those who need these places. I know my friend is thankful to have a decent place to live.

 

[Addie]

Since my dearest friend lives in one of these government subsidized apartments, and the square footage is very small, I don't think it's unreasonable to have it vacated within two weeks. The waiting list is very long, and the need is great for those who need these places. I know my friend is thankful to have a decent place to live.

We have presently over 1,500 elderly apartments in my part of Boston alone. Fortunately, the powers that be saw the baby boomers ageing many years ago and realized the crisis it would create in the housing market. Any abandoned commercial building, school buildings, etc. have been rehabbed for elderly housing. And the building continues on. As I type there are three very large buildings on the waterfront being rehabbed for elderly housing. Next year they will be tearing down the Orient Heights projects that were built right after the war. There are still many elderly folks living there and they will have first pick of where they want to live. Each time they rehab one of these buildings, HUD is learning along with the company that manages these apartments. Such as the new units will have central heating but individual window AC appliances.

This is going on all over Boston. A lot of the WWII housing projects are being razed and the elderly have the option of staying in their part of Boston or moving to another section of the city into a new rehabbed building. Most opt to stay in their part of Boston that they grew up in and know best.

In Charlestown where the U.S.S. Constitution is moored is the old Navy Yard. When the last ship was repaired there, the city took it over from the Federal Govt. A couple of the buildings were designated as historical landmarks and can't be touched. But for the rest of the area the buildings were converted into very expensive condos, middle priced condos, some apartments for Section 8 folks, and a whole section for the elderly. There is a supermarket available along with some upscale restaurants. One building holds offices of businesses that often hire folks that live there. It also has a medical facility to attend to any emergencies and out patient services. Because Old Ironsides is berthed there, the police patrol the fenced in area around the clock. Not a bad place to live if you are on Section 8 or elderly. They have a very long waiting list. Charlestown residents have first choice. They too have a rather large housing project that is slated to be torn down.

 

[PrincessFiona60]

We often have our next resident sitting in the lobby waiting for their room to be vacated by someone discharging home. Rarely have an empty bed for long. I'm expecting 7 admits today, after the 7 discharges...and that's just my unit. Our other unit has 5 discharges and admits.

 

[Roll_Bones]

We had one resident die while her niece was in the apartment with her taking care of her. Did the niece give her something to hurry her death? The police and coroner were called. All deaths are supposed to reported to the police unless it happens in a hospital or other medical facility. (We have crazy laws.)

Wow! My Dad died here in our home and no police even showed up. EMS declared him dead and we called the funeral home who picked up his body.
We were not asked any questions and I even told the EMS worker I purposely did not perform CPR.
EMS contacted the doctor by phone (Memorial Day 2007) after hours and that was it.

I understand. The family should be allowed to grieve, and the departed person should be shown dignity. That manager needs a good kick in the backside, or a visit from those ghosts who visited Scrooge. If only such things were possible.

Was the departed's dignity disrespected because the apartment owners have a policy to make ready the premises for a new resident in the contract time?
I do assume a contract or lease agreement was in place?

For the most part, coroners are sensitive. They don't allow any family member see what they do to the body in order to determine time of death. Anytime there is a death in the home, there will always be suspicion as to the cause.

Not always. And for sure, not always in my state.

Well, I found out today the reason for the pressure on the family to vacate the residents apartment.

I went down to sign my yearly renewal papers. It seems that HUD has changed the rules. It appears our families only have 14 days to vacate the apartment of our belongings now. Otherwise they will start at a prorated amount, start charging market price for the apartment after 14 days. It will come out of the deposit.

Seems very fair to me. Very fair now that I see the nature of the agreement.
Above I mentioned "lease agreement". It seems you have an agreement, but out of the scope of a regular/non-governmental rental agreement.

Since my dearest friend lives in one of these government subsidized apartments, and the square footage is very small, I don't think it's unreasonable to have it vacated within two weeks. The waiting list is very long, and the need is great for those who need these places. I know my friend is thankful to have a decent place to live.

Agree. And it would seem this agreement is a good idea for those who still live. The family and friends of the deceased.
Moving the items out and going through these items should help with the loss and grieving process. Maybe this time frame is actually a very good idea for all concerned?

 

[Kayelle]

Agree. And it would seem this agreement is a good idea for those who still live. The family and friends of the deceased.
Moving the items out and going through these items should help with the loss and grieving process. Maybe this time frame is actually a very good idea for all concerned?

Although some families may gripe about having to do it within two weeks, they need to consider how others are in need of the housing. Addie expanded about the abundance of elderly housing in Boston but that's not the case in most of the country and certainly not here. These are not big places and unless the resident is a hoarder, there should be no problem with clearing it out in two weeks.
On a personal note, my husband of 42 years died in our large home of 35 years. I had to immediately place the home up for sale, and I'm here to tell you, grief can be a motivator for getting things done instead of wallowing in self pity.
My signature seems particularly relevant here.

 

[Addie]

And it is for those very reasons Kayelle, that little by little I have been giving various items to the kids that I know they want. Like The Pirate wants my potato ricer and large green Depression glass bowl. Spike so far has the electric knife sharpener, meat slicer, and a few other items. I also got rid of all the dust collectors.

The odd thing is that I have some belongings that were my mother's. Those are what the kids fight over. When you clean out a house or apartment, you really need a family member that has a truck. We have two trucks in the family. We have a hoarder here. When HUD came through for their yearly inspection, they could barely get into the door. The hammer came down. Management was told to contact the family and give them five days to clean out the apartment. Or evict the tenant. The family did clean out the place and placed the resident in a nursing home.

The main things my kids will have to deal with is the furniture. The bed will go out by the dumpster and the scooter goes to Winthrop. There are ten other pieces that they will have to make a decision about. I assume it will all go to Goodwill or the Salvation Army. Which is fine with me. When my youngest daughter died, my oldest daughter went with me to clean out her place. I collapsed and the job was left for her to do. I have never asked her about it. Still can't.

 

[Addie]

We often have our next resident sitting in the lobby waiting for their room to be vacated by someone discharging home. Rarely have an empty bed for long. I'm expecting 7 admits today, after the 7 discharges...and that's just my unit. Our other unit has 5 discharges and admits.

You is a busy kid. Nothing like paperwork to keep you going.

 

[Mad Cook]

I would assume the rent on the apartment would still be paid during the cleaning out period. I don't think it would be fair for the landlord to be a free storage unit of the property of an estate. We continued to pay the utilities, taxes, alarm and insurance on my mother-in-law's house until it was empty.
That being said, I know my son could never clean this place out in 30 days. If he worked at it, maybe 30 weeks.

Over here, if the deceased leaves an estate of more than £5000 (approx. $7500) it has to go to probate whether you want it to or not and until probate is granted the executor and the beneficiaries can't sell or let the house/flat and cannot sell, give away or donate the deceased person's goods and chattels to charity. I'm the executor of my mother's estate. She died in December 2011 and the estate is perfectly straightforward with no inheritance tax to pay but the probate application has got stuck in the bureaucracy somewhere and I'm stuck in limbo. I can't claim her insurances, access her bank account or do anything useful but in the meantime I'm stuck with paying for essential repairs, insurance and maintenance of her house which I now live in. (That's a long and complicated story we won't go into here.)

Heaven help me if she'd been in rented property!

 

[Mad Cook]

Well, I found out today the reason for the pressure on the family to vacate the residents apartment.

I went down to sign my yearly renewal papers. It seems that HUD has changed the rules. It appears our families only have 14 days to vacate the apartment of our belongings now. Otherwise they will start at a prorated amount, start charging market price for the apartment after 14 days. It will come out of the deposit.

And they can change the conditions of your contract without your agreement and without notifying you? That seems very harsh.

 

[Mad Cook]

Wow! My Dad died here in our home and no police even showed up. EMS declared him dead and we called the funeral home who picked up his body.
We were not asked any questions and I even told the EMS worker I purposely did not perform CPR.
EMS contacted the doctor by phone (Memorial Day 2007) after hours and that was it.

Here an autopsy is a legal requirement if the death is sudden, unexpected or violent and in those circumstances the next of kin cannot refuse even if there are religious reasons why they might want to.

Under certain circumstances the family can request an autopsy or if the hospital think they can learn something about the disease the deceased died from they can ask the permission of the next of kin to do an autopsy. You can actually leave your body to "medical science" if you wish to in your will in which case the next of kin don't have a say in matters.

Unless there are suspicious circumstance the police aren't usually involved unless they've been called because the corpse has been found in the street or neighbours haven't seen the deceased for some time and the property needs to be broken into or some such thing.

 

[Addie]

Over here, if the deceased leaves an estate of more than £5000 (approx. $7500) it has to go to probate whether you want it to or not and until probate is granted the executor and the beneficiaries can't sell or let the house/flat and cannot sell, give away or donate the deceased person's goods and chattels to charity. I'm the executor of my mother's estate. She died in December 2011 and the estate is perfectly straightforward with no inheritance tax to pay but the probate application has got stuck in the bureaucracy somewhere and I'm stuck in limbo. I can't claim her insurances, access her bank account or do anything useful but in the meantime I'm stuck with paying for essential repairs, insurance and maintenance of her house which I now live in. (That's a long and complicated story we won't go into here.)

Heaven help me if she'd been in rented property!

And that is why I have one of my kids on all my accounts. They won't need permission to withdraw any funds as the account is theirs also. Legally that is. My sister had me on her safe deposit box and when she died, I walked into the bank and took out more than $5,000.00 from her box. I gave it to her daughter to help pay for her funeral. Her daughter was quite perturbed because I knew about the box, had access and she didn't.

What a lot of folks here don't know is that banks have someone every day looking at the obit to see if any of them are clients of the bank. If they are, they freeze the account until the family gets a court order to release the funds.

 

[PrincessFiona60]

That's what my MIL did, all three boys had their own brokerage accounts with her and they all three owned the house before she died. After she died, the boys had thier own accounts to do with what they wished and they had to decide among themselves what to do about the house, one brother bought out his two sibs from their portion of the house. This was all taken care of in about two months.

 

[GotGarlic]

According to my certified financial advisor dad, the best way to plan an estate transfer is to create a living trust, appoint yourself as the trustee, and then, instead of an executor, appoint someone as the successor trustee. If you become incompetent or pass on, the successor trustee receives the right to manage the trust, including executing the person's will, paying bills, selling assets, etc. This also avoids probate.

Much more info is available here: What is a living trust? - Nolo.com

 

[PrincessFiona60]

A living trust is what we will do (if we ever win the Lottery), the trust will accept the winnings. If not, I am joyfully spending the kids inheritance as we speak, not that there is much to it.

 

[GotGarlic]

You can also list beneficiaries on mutual fund accounts or set up savings accounts as POD, Pay-on-Death to keep large amounts of money out of your estate/probate and safe from helpful relatives prior to your death.

I say enjoy it now, not much room in a coffin!


The pride of dying rich raises the loudest laugh in hell. John Foster (1770-1843)

This isn't just about cash. People can put their home, vehicles, jewelry, furniture, heirlooms, electronics, etc., into the trust. The point is to avoid the time and expenses associated with probate.

Let's just stipulate that this doesn't apply to everyone, okay?

 

[taxlady]

All of those ideas are great, but are location dependant.

In some jurisdictions, safety deposit boxes and/or joint bank accounts are frozen on the death of one of the holders.

In Quebec, if you get a "notarial will" you don't have to deal with probate. The will is registered in the "Registres des dispositions testamentaires et des mandats du Québec".*

*From Wikipedia:
"In Quebec, civil-law notaries (notaires) are full lawyers licensed to practice notarial law. Quebec notaries draft and prepare major legal instruments (notarial acts), provide complex legal advice, represent clients (out of court) and make appearances on their behalf, act as arbitrator, mediator, or conciliator, and even act as a court commissioner in non-contentious matters.[10] To become a notary in Quebec, a candidate must hold a Bachelor's degree in civil law and a one-year Master's in notarial law[11] and serve a traineeship (stage) before being admitted to practice.

"The concept of notaries public in Quebec does not exist. Instead, the province has Commissioners of Oaths (Commissaires à l'assermentation) which serve to authenticate legal documents at a fixed maximal rate of $5.00CAD."

 

[Aunt Bea]

This isn't just about cash. People can put their home, vehicles, jewelry, furniture, heirlooms, electronics, etc., into the trust. The point is to avoid the time and expenses associated with probate.

Let's just stipulate that this doesn't apply to everyone, okay?

I'm not sure what about my post upset you, but I have deleted it