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Old 07-05-2008, 07:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
From the last paragraph of the Cornell link (emphasis is mine):

"While short-term studies have not indicated other effects of bGH (allergies or other effects), more long-term studies on possible effects of bGH are needed."

I read this as a statement related to only the side effects of BGH. I feel they answered the primary concern, the effect of BGH on human growth, conclusively.
I think other effects leaves it pretty wide open, for all we know BGH could effect human growth only over the long term and not show up in short-term studies.
In whole, when I read that entire statement, it seems full of rather vague terminology. As if they were unwilling to be conclusive in their statements and findings.
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Old 07-05-2008, 09:53 PM   #12
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My opinion (and it is just that)
The hormones in the meats, etc, I think are really a factor, but even moreso,
is the lousy pre-packaged, fast-food, soda-laden, deep fried daily intakes.

I remember in school there was 1 kid in the grade people called "fat". Looking at his photo now, he was plump, at best.
We ate breakfast, had healthy lunches and didn't have sugary snacks throughout the day before dinner. Milk was something we all drank and liked! I remember soda wasn't something you had, unless it was in a rootbeer float (and that was only every few months).

For anyone who hasn't seen the movie "Supersize Me", I recommend it as something all pre-teens and teens should watch (except that one part where the girlfriend is interviewed about you-know-what)

BTW, I'm not sure the BMI link is awake today...it said "jkath, you're underweight". Says I need to gain another 6 pounds.......um, no......
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Old 07-05-2008, 10:03 PM   #13
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Some research also suggests that some breast cancers may also be linked to hormones in our food as well. All I say is if you can get the cleanest most natural meats and milk you can get do it It's starting to be big movement on peoples part to be able to get legal raw organic milk again these days. In the 70s my mother would buy raw milk from a dairy farmer although it was supposed to be illegal I grew up on it all through my teenage years. We must remember there are powerful rich lobbyists in the government that can sway the information we get.
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Old 07-05-2008, 10:07 PM   #14
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It has also been suggested that stress could be a factor in early puberty. Maybe natures way to keep humans procreating I don't know.
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Old 07-06-2008, 03:16 AM   #15
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Some research also suggests that some breast cancers may also be linked to hormones in our food as well.
I did a search on that and came up with this (I checked on the website and you are free to use anything from the page, no copyright infringement problems, but sorry I don't know how to highlight it as a quote so I put it in parenthesis):

"Even the FDA admits that cows injected with rBGH could suffer from increased udder infections (mastitis), severe reproductive problems, digestive disorders, foot and leg ailments, and persistent sores and lacerations."

"In a 1998 survey by Family Farm Defenders, it was found that mortality rates for cows on factory dairy farms in Wisconsin, those injecting their herds with rBGH, were running at 40% per year. In other words, after two and a half years of rBGH injections most of these drugged and supercharged cows were dead. Typically, dairy cows live for 15-20 years. "


So, not healthy for the cows either. And there was this:

"BGH "treatment" causes significantly increased levels of another growth hormone called IGF-1 in the milk, according to a 1990 study sponsored by Monsanto and published in Science. Bovine IGF-1 is identical to the IGF-1 naturally found in humans."

Which led to this corresponding to your statement:

"Despite warnings from scientists, such as Dr. Michael Hansen from the Consumers Union and Dr. Samuel Epstein from the Cancer Prevention Coalition, that milk from rBGH injected cows contains substantially higher amounts of a potent cancer tumor promoter called IGF-1, and despite evidence that rBGH milk contains higher levels of pus, bacteria, and antibiotics, the FDA gave the hormone its seal of approval, with no real pre-market safety testing required."

I cut and pasted here as best I could keeping it as short and to the point as possible, but here is the link to the website I found it at:
Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH) in milk threathens our health

A couple of other noteworthy things:

Cornell University received funding for its study from Monsanto. Monsanto is the manufacturer of rBGH sold to farmers as PISOLAC. This is what is termed conflict of interest.

Several key decision makers in the FDA's approval of rBGH were former employees of Monsanto, including Michael Taylor. This is also termed conflict of interest.

So, on one side you have a study funded be an interested party that concludes long term studies are needed, and on the other side you have consumer groups and several scientists (and even a couple of reports from Monsanto themselves) providing data of possible and serious health risks from rBGH that need long term studies to verify, resolve, prove, disprove etc.

So no, I can't see this issue as resolved conclusively.
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick2272 View Post
...I cut and pasted here as best I could keeping it as short and to the point as possible, but here is the link to the website I found it at:
Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH) in milk threathens our health
When I read about the background of the person who owns this Web site, I'm not reassured by her qualifications to comment on these issues in any authoritative way: Shirley's Testimonial: How I achieved optimum health after a lifetime of suffering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick2272 View Post
A couple of other noteworthy things:

Cornell University received funding for its study from Monsanto. Monsanto is the manufacturer of rBGH sold to farmers as PISOLAC. This is what is termed conflict of interest.

Several key decision makers in the FDA's approval of rBGH were former employees of Monsanto, including Michael Taylor. This is also termed conflict of interest.

So, on one side you have a study funded be an interested party that concludes long term studies are needed, and on the other side you have consumer groups and several scientists (and even a couple of reports from Monsanto themselves) providing data of possible and serious health risks from rBGH that need long term studies to verify, resolve, prove, disprove etc.
It's actually pretty common for companies to hire university researchers to conduct studies for them; it's called *independence*. You're assuming that because Monsanto paid for the study, that the scientists came up with results that Monsanto wanted to see. That would be unethical, and as someone who has worked in a medical school for 10 years, it's not the way good science works. Cornell University is pretty well regarded for its research activities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick2272 View Post
So no, I can't see this issue as resolved conclusively.
Have you ever wondered why the anabolic steroids that some athletes take have to be injected, while other steroids, such as Prednisone, can be taken orally? It's because the digestive process renders the anabolic steroids inactive - it breaks them down into component parts, just as it does with BGH. BGH is biologically active in cows, but not in humans. No amount of further research will change that fact.
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Old 07-06-2008, 01:19 PM   #17
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Oh, dear. I scanned all of the input and may have missed this, but even when I was a teenager, moving around the world, it was a given that girls matured faster in warmer climes. Mexican, South Asian, etc gals had their periods sooner. Florida and other southern -- i.e., Texan, South CA girls matured faster than northern gals. One time a neice of mine had her first period when she was at my house. My sister wasn't around and was shocked. "He double hockey sticks, I didn't have mine for another few years!" My neice was born and raised in southern Florida. As our population centers head more and more south, girls are starting earlier. Yes, some of the outward signs are cultural. But the true physical maturing DOES happen faster in warmer climates.
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Old 07-06-2008, 03:05 PM   #18
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It's actually pretty common for companies to hire university researchers to conduct studies for them; it's called *independence*. You're assuming that because Monsanto paid for the study, that the scientists came up with results that Monsanto wanted to see. That would be unethical, and as someone who has worked in a medical school for 10 years, it's not the way good science works. Cornell University is pretty well regarded for its research activities.
Just because it is common doesn't make it ethical or right. We saw what happened when tobacco companies funded research about the effects of tobacco. And no that is not called *independence* that is called *reliance*.

After reading that Monsanto paid for the study on their product, I am not reassured on Cornell's qualifications in regards to this study either.

One difference between her and them is she gathered the information and listed the sources, some including the FDA and Monsanto themselves as well as other scientists, something you neglected to mention. I also don't think she took money from interested parties in order to do it either.

But by your reasoning, since she gathered the information instead of conducting the study herself personally, I should ignore everything you wrote as well since you did not personally do the study either but rather 'gathered' the information to post here.

I also think it is neat how everyone continues to sidestep the IGF-1 issue, something that serious is worth investigating.

Just because someone chooses to gather information for themselves without the backing of major companies and universities doesn't mean what they have to say should immediately be dismissed. We have seen that tactic played out before as well, we can't attack where they got the information from, so instead we attack them.
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Old 07-06-2008, 08:48 PM   #19
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Maverick, BMI is a proven factor in early onset of puberty in girls. I don't have the research at my fingertips as I have it in hard copy at work. I'll check it out tomorrow and see if I can find an internet link for you to read. The body requires a certain level of body fat to produce estrogen as I said earlier and if young girls are a bit heavy it happens earlier. (Incidentally, check your PMs later)

Fisher's Mom, I know what you mean about their poor hormones kicking into gear. I just read some research about how hard it is on adolescents mental health when they develop physically earlier than they used to. They have all the physical signs and urges, but not the emotional maturity needed to deal with everything thats being thrown at them. I seem to recall someone is putting together a study on early maturation and links to serious mental health issues in adolescents.
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:04 PM   #20
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Got the PM, will look at it in a bit, thanks!

I am not saying BMI isn't a factor, I know it is, but there are also other factors involved including environmental effects. Lord knows how all this pollution as well as all these chemicals will be effecting the human race over the long term.

These are things we all need to be wary of and keep a close eye on, especially (as ties into the original thread) we are wanting to bring kids into this world and have something to hand down to them as a legacy (that won't kill em anyway!).

As Albert Einstien put it, "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."

We need to think better with each generation, not just except things at face value or as is and assume its OK. Don't be afraid to ask questions, or to question things. Thinking for yourself is one of the few true freedoms we have.
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