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Old 09-05-2006, 06:52 PM   #31
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Maidrite... I like you, man. And I'm not sure why you do it, but could you scale back your font and color a little? I mean, Admin gets on people for writing in ALL CAPS and considers it, through widely-accepted 'netiquette' to be shouting. If all caps is shouting, then what is super-sized, bright red font... 'screaming'?!?
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Old 09-05-2006, 06:55 PM   #32
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If this nation wanted to curb the obiesity issues, they should/would make the healthier options more cost effective. Australia has what is affectionatly known as, the "Twinkie" tax. Junk food costs more, making the healthier option even more apealing.

As far as the posts refering to marijuana and marijuana related deaths, there to date have not been any recorded deaths soley based on marijuana useage. Sure people have died with pot in there system, but it has not been the cause of death.

http://www.cannabis.com/untoldstory/hemp_9.shtml

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

When people have an allergic reaction to marijuana, they get high. It is a reaction between THC(the active ingredient) and our bodys(brains) natural chemicals.



Anywho....if there was to be a national plan to do away with so much of the processed and adulterated, and largly unhealty items in the stores, we would all benifit. Think off all the farmers that need the work. But until the prices drop, a single parent, on a shoestring budget, will opt for the bigger bargin in most cases. Unfortunatly, the bargins are not the healthiest of options sometimes.

Also, it must be said that no one is forced to buy unhealthy things. The U.S. is a instant gratification type society for the most part. When we want it, we want it now, and that normally means fast food or microwave meals, not a great home cooked dinner.
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Old 09-05-2006, 07:28 PM   #33
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TAT:

I have to disagree. People overeat because the stuff tastes good. I overeat. I eat good foods, not junk. I eat stuff that tastes great, not stuff that's cheap.

Cigarette taxes haven't slowed down smokers and twinkie tax won't slow down overeaters.

In some cases of extreme poverty, the unfortunate fact that a gallon of Coke costs a lot less than a gallon of milk makes incorrect shopping decisions easy. I believe this is the minority of cases.
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Old 09-06-2006, 03:40 AM   #34
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I'd like to further elucidate what TATTRAT mentioned about the Australian tax approach. Australia introduced a GST (goods and services tax - similar to Britains VAT - value added tax) in about the year 2000.

What the government did was make fresh food and vegetables and meat (and there were some pretty funny discussions about whether a cooked fresh chicken was to be exempt or not) and impose the GST on all other food stuffs. It wasn't a "twinkie tax" per se, all processed foods, healthy or not (and lets not debate about whether any processed foods are healthy) are subject to the tax.

Personally I think it's a great idea. More than anything else, it cuts down paper work for primary producers who sell directly to the people via farmers markets etc.

I honestly think the approach the obesity "problem" is a complete mess. Public policy does not know where to turn. How do we as nations encourage people to take responsibility for their health?

The approaches of doctors usually leave a lot to be desired, I wonder just how much time they get in medical school devoted to teaching people how to manage their weight?

I don't have the answers, but what I would like to see particularly in the uK is NHS sponsored weight loss clinics staffed by a multidisciplinary team of exercise physiologists, dieticians and doctors, where epople are treated with dignity, and referred for appropriate intervention (such as weight loss surgery) when all conventional attempts to lose weight have failed.
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Old 09-06-2006, 03:50 AM   #35
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yup, let's make the government tax us to death to make us behave.

or not.

how long before junk food is illegal?

hey man, i got twinkies. ten bucks.

you got 20? ok, ring dings...
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Old 09-06-2006, 04:18 AM   #36
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That wasn't the intention of the tax though. If you read my post, what it was intended to do was preserve the price of fresh food, and keep it the same as it was before the tax. The GST was applied to everything else, food, clothes, everything, and it was intended to bring taxes in line, before GST Australia had hundreds of hidden taxes, for example the 10% tax on icecream replaced a 27% tax on the icecream containers!!!! Although the icecream itself was tax free previously. the tax did have some huge flaws and still does, for example sanitary napkins and tampex are considered a "luxury item" and subject to GST, whilst shaving cream is not and is tax exempt - guess the majority gender of the Australian parliament.............lol

It's very easy to mock BuckyTom, but lets see your public policy recommendations.

As I stated in my post, I think the the intervention governments can have, particular in countries like Australia and the UK which have free government provided health care, can be a direct one. But tax is surely one of the tools the government can utilise to raise revenue to provide these services. And if it encourages someone to perhaps buy an orange or a banana instead of a chocolate bar for their three o'clock sugar fix - all the better.

It's a competely different proposition in the US where you health care isn't government provided.

I think society should take responsibility for helping one another reach a healthy weight. It shouldn't be up to the individual to go it alone, at the mercy of charlatans and witch doctors out to make a quick buck with ridiculous weight loss programmes with outlandish claims. Call me a left wing sympathist, but I believe we should all be working together for the greater good. Surely a healthy population of people who can look in the mirror each day and feel proud of themselves is what we should be aiming for as a society.

It just baffles me how much money our government is throwing at hospitals and keeping the largest publicly provided healthcare system in the world ticking over fixing the problems caused by lifestyle issues, but is so reluctant to providing preventative healthcare measures to those who are already obese, but not yet ill.

I had no help from my doctors at all. Nothing. If I didn't want weight loss surgery, I wasn't entitled to anything, no dietician support, nothing. I find that sad. And fortunately I am the type of person who was willing to go out and research and find my own way, however a lot of people haven't got the confidence and the nouse to go out there and do that, otherwise we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic.
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Old 09-06-2006, 04:49 AM   #37
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BT, I agree completely. Whatever is done with our health, we ultimately must take personal responsibility. It isn't up to the government to keep the "goodies" away from us. Most of us know what food is good for us...some may not want to take the time to prepare it, but that too is a matter or personal responsibility. I really don't see how we got to be a people of having to police everything. There are many choices of all different foods we can put in our bodies and if we use only a small amount of the "goodies" to enhance a meal rather than depend on it for our nutrition, we will choose the good for us 95% of the time. You can see people are motivated by different things to keep their weight in check - some their jobs, hobbies, etc. Some see the results that only a small loss can bring and are encouraged by that. I have no sympathy for someone who chooses to dig their grave with a fork or spoon. Help is available!
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Old 09-06-2006, 05:20 AM   #38
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Well we need police on things because we are humans..

Look alchol has policing.. why because minors shouldnt drink it their livers and kidneys arent fully developed etc.

SO.... why shouldnt we police certain foods. As eating sugars etc can have the SAME effect on you!. Sure it doesntmake you drunk but it still is bad for liver kidneys etc.

BUT thats beside the point the like kyles said the purpose of the tax was to MAKE FRESH FOOD AFFORDABLE because at the moment in england i can go to a grocery store and get:

Chicken in atomato sauce with peppers
potatoes
vegetables
Premade pre done full of cr@p but 2.50

Now to buy all that seperatly 4.00-5.00

SO the average family with medium income and kids etc which choice do you tihnk they will make???

Food is expensive and ya you can argue all you want about nutrition etc. but what it comes down to is cost.
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Old 09-06-2006, 05:24 AM   #39
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Oh and i know your argument is "you cant put a price on healthy eating and cooking" WELLLLLLL when i was a kid you certainly could

My family worked hard really hard but i got peanut butter and jam everyday for my lunchs ya surei got some veggies etc but my mom couldnt afford to make sure we had "fresh stuff" everyday nor could she cook a meal for us everynight I couldnt begin to tell you how many cans of Spaghetti or kraft dinner i ate.

I thought Jello Pudding was fine dine!!!

So before we start point fingers and say "people are fat cause they choose to be" we need to look at things differntly

For example... Look how many questions we get on DC simple to some but I can tell you now My mom is 44 and just learned this year how to cook asparagus from fresh and we see this on the boards allll the time "Hi I just bought a sweet potato for fun what is it and what does it do"

The education on food sucks...not just in england but all over the world. we need to be taught how to prepare and cook certain things.

Knowledge is power

Oh and who do i think should do this... The govt...the grocery stores... the farmers... chefs...

we need to educate I got a leaflet in the grocery store about lettuces how cool!! i wish i saw this more. I mean i see ppl walk by certain fruits and cheap veg but they dont know what they are.. or how to use them ((Greens come to mind so cheap yet ppl are scared)).
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Old 09-06-2006, 05:30 AM   #40
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there ya go kyles. (btw, i wasn't mocking you, but the system. i'd like to see the day an american pays a tax for simply owning a tv).
licia pretty much summed up the american experience.
also, i really don't think i can post my opinions about english law and social attitude here.

but then again, that's what seperated us in the beginning, in 1773. i guess i'll have to be humble and thank the good citizens of boston for that one. (it probably won't happen again. go yankees! )

besides, you yourself admit even with overtaxation, social medicine sucks.
i had a friend in ireland who was pregnant at the same time my wife was, and we were amazed at how much less pre-natal care was given over there in the first 2 trimesters, the most important ones. we've compared everything from vitamins to check ups to post op, and it's kinda scary.
i won't get into the health care debate of rich/insured v.s. poor/uninsured in america, but if you have a backbone to work here, you'll be alright.
(sorry if i've offended anyone, but get real, and get to work if you want a life.)
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