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Old 12-26-2006, 03:32 PM   #41
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I do realize that their are non-christian people but a huge majority of them still celebrate Christmas, even if they don't celebrate the religion. And Christmas is such a hyped up thing that, whether or not you celebrate Christmas, you know about it. I don't want to get too personal on this, but we would have to celebrate and decorate for every holiday for every religion if you wanted things to be done the politically correct way. And I think that it is great that we as a country want everyone to feel welcome and free here, but we cannot accomodate, publically, all of the religions that are in this country. There would be several people out of work due to a religous holiday almost every week.
I guess I would just have to say that it should be up to those who would like to work those days. If you opt to pay them more, that is basically saying that everyone who is christian who is working on a non-christian holiday should get paid extra for those days as well seeing as the people who worked on the christian holiday got paid more and it would create issues there. It's a rough subject and depending on what religion you are is what your opinion is going to be.
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Old 12-26-2006, 03:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Mrs. Cuillo
I do realize that their are non-christian people but a huge majority of them still celebrate Christmas, even if they don't celebrate the religion.
I am sure you did not mean it this way, but I find this statement very insulting. A lot of people assume that everyone celebrates Christmas (I do know that is not what you said), but the fact is that a lot of people do not. Another fact is even when you tell people you are not Christian they still assume you at least celebrate Christmas. I can not tell you how many times I have told someone I was Jewish so I don't have a Christmas tree and they don't believe me. They flat out do not believe that anyone would not have a Christmas tree no matter what I say.

I do not think that every single holiday needs to be recognized. I think that would be impossible like you say. I do think, however, that it needs to be recognized that not everyone celebrates the most popular holiday and that the world does not need to stop because a majority of the people in the US do celebrate it. Why should people who don't celebrate it be forced to stay at home and not do the normal things they would like to do just because others feel no one should have to work on their holiday?
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:30 PM   #43
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I'm just glad they closed here or else my son wouldn't have been with us for dinner.
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:02 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by GB
I am sure you did not mean it this way, but I find this statement very insulting. A lot of people assume that everyone celebrates Christmas (I do know that is not what you said), but the fact is that a lot of people do not. Another fact is even when you tell people you are not Christian they still assume you at least celebrate Christmas. I can not tell you how many times I have told someone I was Jewish so I don't have a Christmas tree and they don't believe me. They flat out do not believe that anyone would not have a Christmas tree no matter what I say.

I do not think that every single holiday needs to be recognized. I think that would be impossible like you say. I do think, however, that it needs to be recognized that not everyone celebrates the most popular holiday and that the world does not need to stop because a majority of the people in the US do celebrate it. Why should people who don't celebrate it be forced to stay at home and not do the normal things they would like to do just because others feel no one should have to work on their holiday?
I am loathe to insult anyone but a few thoughts come to mind on this topic, aside from those I've already penned.

Typically, the word 'society' is what 3/4 of the people do 3/4 of the tiime. In the United States, society celebrates christmas, either as a religious holiday, as a secular holiday (like thanksgiving) or simply as a means to celebrate the winter solstice, which is where the entire celebration at December's end truly originated.
Some time ago, the federal government decided to make the celebration a national holiday. Society is used to this idea. Certain traditions, both religious and national, are followed. It's unfortunate that anyone feels insulted or neglected that they cannot do the things they normally do on a holiday they do not celebrate. In keeping with a spirit of respect and tolerance (and I have mountains to say on that particular word), some people simply have to go with the flow of society. It's part of living in a country where diversity is prevelant.

Several examples, if I may....I live in Bergen County, NJ. This is one of the few remaining counties in the country that keep blue laws on the books. With the exception of supermarkets, theatres and restaurants, nothing is open in this county on Sunday. No shopping for any of us. Now I could move to another county, or shop in another county. I could even vote my disapproval. I knew the gig when I moved here. I deal with it, enjoying the lack of heavy traffic one day every week.

I live near Teaneck, NJ. Teaneck has a large jewish population. Most of the shops on Cedar Lane cater to hebrew diets, jewish faith customs. There is a hat store I like to frequent. However, they close every Friday afternoon and don't reopen till Monday because of their faith and that of most of their customers. Unfortunate for me, but again, I adapt. I do this out of respect for my fellow countrymen who simply do things a different way.

I don't see the opening of shops on christmas as an answer to people who feel they have a right to do whatever they want on a day most people would like nothing better than to be home. I see it as another loss for the people of this country. I see it as a further gap in the lives of people who live shoulder to shoulder with each other, never even getting the name of a neighbour. I see it as another tradition gone the way of block parties and welcome wagons. I see it as dollars having more weight than the needs and desire of society. I understand progress and I can easily accept change when I see it benefits society. I just don't see this as being the case here.

Finally, for anyone who truly feels put upon by not being able to live life as you normally would on December 25, please consider this. It is just one day out of 365. It's a very small inconvenience to endure when you consider how happy it makes so many other people. I believe that if more people would consider that, and not just in regards to christmas, but anything that others do that you do not...I believe more people would truly feel more peace in their lives, overall.
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:07 PM   #45
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on another note

I would like to say thank you to everyone who is participating in this thread in such a calm manner. I see that opinions are strong and sincere. I appreciate that the responses have been kept so civil, which in turn keeps the conversation active. Sure, we all love food, but it's nice to know we can discuss something to topical without resulting to fistycuffs.
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:19 PM   #46
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All businesses should follow "bank schedules"...It works!!!!!
Do you know anyone who does not get their banking done...
Think of the holidays they observe...not to mention week-ends...
I have not heard of any banks going 'broke' lately....
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:25 PM   #47
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Vera the problem with what you are saying is that Society does not mean what 3/4 of the people do 3/4 of the time. You just basically told 1/4 of all people that what they think does not matter and that is not true. That is also not society, or at least it should not be.

Vera, there is a restaurant in Boston owned by orthodox Jews. Their religion forbids them from working on the Sabbath. Their customers love the place, but a large number of them do not observe the Sabbath. Now they could say "oh well" and close the shop and observe the Sabbath. That would be perfectly fine. They chose to do something different. Each Friday afternoon they "sell" the shop to the employees. The employees become the owners for Fri and Sat. They work and keep all the profits. The employees then "sell" the shop back to the owners on Sunday. What is wrong with that? It takes everyone into consideration and everyone is happy. The owners get to celebrate their most holy holiday and the workers still get to earn money on those jobs without being forced to take the weekend off for a holiday they do not celebrate.

I "go with the flow" plenty. I have taken Xmas off from every job I have ever worked because my employer told me I had to. I never said a word about it. When I was forced to use vacation time to celebrate my holidays I did so with a smile on my face and never said a word. When people wish me a Merry Christmas I smile and wish them a Merry Christmas as well. They are saying it out of the goodness of their hearts and it is a wonderful thing even if I do not celebrate the holiday. When people I know who KNOW I am Jewish send me a Christmas card with a picture of Jesus on it I again smile and thank them knowing that it was with the best intentions. I do not see what the big deal is though for stores to be open of Christmas. I do not see how that diminishes the holiday for people who are celebrating it. They do not have to go to those stores. And if they happen to need something at one of those stores then, hey, they will be able to get it.
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:27 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob
All businesses should follow "bank schedules"...It works!!!!!
Do you know anyone who does not get their banking done...
Think of the holidays they observe...not to mention week-ends...
I have not heard of any banks going 'broke' lately....
Ahh , but most banking can now be done online 365 days a week any hour of any day. If you don't have a computer then they also (most) have 800 numbers that are staffed almost every day of the year and not just during bankers hours.
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:32 PM   #49
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Let me just state for the record, in case anyone is misunderstanding where I am coming from, that I love Christmas. I love the attitude that people get around this time of the year. People, for the most part, become friendlier. People give each other a little more latitude than the rest of the year. I love seeing the lights and decorations. I love the Christmas music. I even celebrate the holiday with my wifes family (she is Jewish, but her family is not) and look forward to it every year. I did not want anyone thinking I was a Christmas hater or anything like that.
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:44 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB
Vera the problem with what you are saying is that Society does not mean what 3/4 of the people do 3/4 of the time. You just basically told 1/4 of all people that what they think does not matter and that is not true. That is also not society, or at least it should not be.

Vera, there is a restaurant in Boston owned by orthodox Jews. Their religion forbids them from working on the Sabbath. Their customers love the place, but a large number of them do not observe the Sabbath. Now they could say "oh well" and close the shop and observe the Sabbath. That would be perfectly fine. They chose to do something different. Each Friday afternoon they "sell" the shop to the employees. The employees become the owners for Fri and Sat. They work and keep all the profits. The employees then "sell" the shop back to the owners on Sunday. What is wrong with that? It takes everyone into consideration and everyone is happy. The owners get to celebrate their most holy holiday and the workers still get to earn money on those jobs without being forced to take the weekend off for a holiday they do not celebrate.

I "go with the flow" plenty. I have taken Xmas off from every job I have ever worked because my employer told me I had to. I never said a word about it. When I was forced to use vacation time to celebrate my holidays I did so with a smile on my face and never said a word. When people wish me a Merry Christmas I smile and wish them a Merry Christmas as well. They are saying it out of the goodness of their hearts and it is a wonderful thing even if I do not celebrate the holiday. When people I know who KNOW I am Jewish send me a Christmas card with a picture of Jesus on it I again smile and thank them knowing that it was with the best intentions. I do not see what the big deal is though for stores to be open of Christmas. I do not see how that diminishes the holiday for people who are celebrating it. They do not have to go to those stores. And if they happen to need something at one of those stores then, hey, they will be able to get it.
No, GB, I don't mean to suggest that it's okay for 1/4 of the people to feel their opinions don't matter. But, sometimes, majority rules. We cede to others all the time. It's just part of being human.

The restaurant you mentioned came up with a solution that works for them. Again, it was a choice they made. I imagine it could have gone any number of different ways, yes? But this case is about something privately owned...not something that is public, like say...the nation.

The instance you refer to regarding having to use vacation time to celebrate a holiday of your religion is unfortunate. However, in my experiences that is something in the past now, especially in large corporations. It's discrimination to force an employee to use a vacation day for religious observances. Large companies that have diversity policies in place don't practice what you were subjected to.

That you happily accept and return christmas greetings speaks volumes of your nature and character. I fully understand the feelings you are experiencing as a result of being part of a minority at certain times. (Imagine how it feels to be the pagan in a family of roman catholics). It surely is not my intention to try to sway your thinkings or feelings. Rather, I simply hoped to salve a wound. Perhaps none exists, in which case, let me say, instead...Happpy New Year!

and at the risk of earning a smack...I didn't think there were any jews in boston.... please pardon my political incorrectness....
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