(Help!) Shopping for digital camera

[Wart]

A taste:

Clicking the following pictures will open a larger version in a new window or tab, the new graphic MAY be resized to fit the browser window. AND the following thumbnails have been seriously compressed to keep total file size for all 6 thumbnails under 25k.

A killdeer protecting her eggs:


Part one of a self port project:


Part 2 of a self portrait project:


Kozmo, the Cat: (I can't find the full sized version of this)


Reflections on the Deck:


Hidden Oil:


Nothing earth shaking but not all that bad. And I'm not so sure these could have been taken with a point and shoot. Well, except for the oil tank.

 

[GB]

And I'm not so sure these could have been taken with a point and shoot.

These absolutely could have been taken with a P&H. There is no reason they could not have been. A P&H can do everything required to get these shots. Now, if you were taking a shot where you were zooming in or out while pushing the shutter button down or something like that then I would agree with you that you would not be able to get the shot, but for standard shots like this, if you know what you are doing, there is no reason you could not get these, or better shots.

 

[GB]

There were all taken with a P&H and sized down to fit this website...










The originals of each of these are much larger and show much more detail. If anyone is interested, just let me know and I can send you a link to the originals. These were taken with a Nikon Coolpix990 quite a few years ago.

 

[roadfix]

And I'm not so sure these could have been taken with a point and shoot.

Most definitely can be done with a P & S.

 

[Wart]

Aw, Heck, I may as well come out and say it, I come from the land of Film, took a years worth of Photography classes at a Universities School of Art in the early 80's, had/have a dark room, so I know a little bit about photography. That's one point of view for my opinion.

Another point of view is from the time I spent on Flickrs critique groups. Often enough the only advice able to be given is to get a better camera because they want something their P&S camera just ... cant ... do ... which brings me to:

I agree that the most important part of taking pictures is the person operating the camera, but that assertion falls apart when what is needed done to make a good exposure falls outside the operating parameters of the camera, and point and shoots have a narrow envelope of operation.

(Witness the current trend of people striving for no dept of field. I believe this trend is due to people moving to more capable cameras from cell phone and point and shoots which have ALL depth of field.)

OTOH I have looked through the photographs of people giving advice, and these photographs have been taken with advanced equipment, and all I see are snapshots. I wonder if these people have ever taken their camera out of Auto Mode.


I guess what I'm getting at here is, if someone gets a P&S and likes taking pictures and wants to grow they have already hurt themselves by getting the P&S.

 

[Wart]

These absolutely could have been taken with a P&H. There is no reason they could not have been.

Of course you would have a different opinion if you were privy to the EXIF.

I was there, I know better.

 

[roadfix]

I guess what I'm getting at here is, if someone gets a P&S and likes taking pictures and wants to grow they have already hurt themselves by getting the P&S.

I understand what you're saying. But even with a good DSLR, without a basic knowledge in photography, the person operating it won't be able to use it to its fullest potential.

My tiny little P & S camera, like most, has manual over ride and I use the manual mode quite frequently. I'm able to somewhat control depth of field, shutter speed, etc, to a certain extent. Sure, I don't have lens interchangeability, but I sacrifice that for the compactness of my camera.
What most P & S cameras lack is image quality in extreme low level lighting. They produce too much noise with extended exposure times, for instance. That's one area where larger chips in high end cameras do make a big diff.

 

[GB]

Aw, Heck, I may as well come out and say it, I come from the land of Film, took a years worth of Photography classes at a Universities School of Art in the early 80's, had/have a dark room, so I know a little bit about photography. That's one point of view for my opinion.

Another point of view is from the time I spent on Flickrs critique groups. Often enough the only advice able to be given is to get a better camera because they want something their P&S camera just ... cant ... do ... which brings me to:

I agree that the most important part of taking pictures is the person operating the camera, but that assertion falls apart when what is needed done to make a good exposure falls outside the operating parameters of the camera, and point and shoots have a narrow envelope of operation.

(Witness the current trend of people striving for no dept of field. I believe this trend is due to people moving to more capable cameras from cell phone and point and shoots which have ALL depth of field.)

OTOH I have looked through the photographs of people giving advice, and these photographs have been taken with advanced equipment, and all I see are snapshots. I wonder if these people have ever taken their camera out of Auto Mode.


I guess what I'm getting at here is, if someone gets a P&S and likes taking pictures and wants to grow they have already hurt themselves by getting the P&S.

I come from a film background as well. My father and two uncles started me in photography when I was old enough to hold a camera. Once of those uncles was a professional photographer for many years. I have taken photography classes and also taught photography classes. I have taught darkroom developing classes as well.

I respectfully disagree with just about everything you said. Any professional photographer will tell you that you can take an amazing photo with a crappy camera if you know what you are doing. A good photo is more a function of the photographer than the equipment. That is not to say that great equipment can not make a difference because it absolutely can, but if you know how to take photos then you can use a lousy camera and get great shots.

In a lot of P&S you CAN adjust the DOF (depth of field). You just need to know which menu to go into. This is not just for SLR's. An SLR will let you change lenses. It will easily let you manually focus, change aperture, and change shutter speed. Aside from changing lenses, most P&S CAN do these other things. An SLR will let you add flash options, which I agree will let you do some great things and be a great benefit. If you have a P&S you just have to learn how to use available light, other light sources, or the on board flash the right way (a hint with that is placing a piece of paper towel over the flash to diffuse it so you do not get that washed out harsh light).

If someone is interested in growing then at some point they probably will want an SLR, but you have to crawl before you walk. SLR's are not the type of camera you tote around to take candids just for the heck of it, well for most people at least. I have a DSLR with one lens (can't afford another just yet) as well as some filters, flash, remote shutter release, tripod, and other accessories. My camera bag is a backpack style bag. It is not the type of setup you can just grab if you are running out of the house to hang out with friends somewhere. If I go on a quick hike and want to take photos then I have either have to take the whole backpack, which is a pain when hiking (but I do it) or I can take a P&S that easily fits in my pocket and does not weigh me down. Someone who is not looking to be Ansel Adams is going to value ease of use over the added control they may get from something bigger. If someone uses a P&S for a while and decides they want more then they can always upgrade to an SLR later on, but if they start out with an SLR which is big and bulky and complicated then they may never use it because it is too big to just grab on the spur of the moment and it is intimidating, even though you can throw it in full auto mode just like a P&S.

 

[GB]

Of course you would have a different opinion if you were privy to the EXIF.

I was there, I know better.

I could care less about the EXIF. I am going solely on visual appearance. If you can not see the difference then who cares what the specs say? Looking at your photos, I can say that someone with a P&S could take a photo that looks close enough that anyone, but a professional would be able to tell the difference.

 

[Wart]

I could care less about the EXIF. I am going solely on visual appearance. If you can not see the difference then who cares what the specs say?

Because the specs would indicate why most of these couldn't be taken with a P&S.

Thats just the way it is.

Like I say, I was there, I know better.

 

[Andy M.]

To sum it all up. More expensive cameras (DSLRs) have more versatility than less expensive cameras (P&S). Not a revealtion.

Got it. No arguement.

Getting back to the OP's requirements. He said, "Shes not Ansell Adams, nor does she aspire to be, but I'm sure she would appreciate nice, usable features.".

Smoke King also said: "We will be using it for holidays, vacations, family gatherings and such. I think its safe to say that if the camera requires its own bag, then its likely more camera than she will need/use."

Responses should address these requirements to keep this thread on track.

 

[GB]

Because the specs would indicate why most of these couldn't be taken with a P&S.

Thats just the way it is.

Like I say, I was there, I know better.

I do not know too many people (read none) who would look at a picture framed on a wall and then go back to the photographers original file to access the EFIX info to find out exactly what went on so your point really is just silly.

As I said before, visually only a professional might be able to tell. Your average person would have no idea at all which photo came from an SLR and which came from a P&S so again, no matter where you have been or what you think you know, it really does not matter for what the OP is looking for.

 

[pacanis]

I do not know too many people (read none) who would look at a picture framed on a wall and then go back to the photographers original file to access the EFIX info to find out exactly what went on so your point really is just silly.

As I said before, visually only a professional might be able to tell. Your average person would have no idea at all which photo came from an SLR and which came from a P&S so again, no matter where you have been or what you think you know, it really does not matter for what the OP is looking for.

Gawd I hate to say it but...... I kinda see his point now after that comment you quoted, GB
Maybe it's the way I am reading it, but Wart is saying the pics would not even exist if all he had was the point and shoot to take those particular pics..... That he went to needed features, that only a DSLR would have or is capable of, to even attempt to take these pics.

You are right, GB. Looking at them no one could tell what they were taken with, but we would not be looking at them if he did not have a DSLR to take them with. They would not exist.

I think

edited to add: That doesn't mean someone else couldn't have taken them with a hundred dollar camera (lol)

 

[GB]

Wart is saying the pics would not even exist if all he had was the point and shoot to take those particular pics..... That he went to needed features, that only a DSLR would have or is capable of, to even attempt to take these pics.

This is simply not true in most cases though. You can do most things that you need with a P&H. You can not change lenses, but you can compensate for that by other techniques (moving closer or further from the subject, changing the DOF, etc.) You can get the exact same end result by doing different things. Much like you can get the same result in cooking by doing different techniques. You can steam veggies using a bamboo steamer or you can place a dish in a stockpot and steam them that way. The end result is the same. You just took different paths to get to the same end result. Warts pictures could exist by taking them with a P&H. He may not know how to do it, but it can be done.

 

[roadfix]

One feature that I look for in P & S camera is a 28mm equiv wide angle lens. Most cameras don't go wide enough. This may not be important to some but the few extra degrees makes a difference to me, especially with landscapes, building interiors, group of people within close quarters, etc....
Just until a couple of years ago it was almost impossible to find a model with a wide angle lens. Now, they are becoming more popular. I personally would rather have a short optical zoom with wide, short focal length than a longer zoom ratio with no wide angle. Ideally for me, I can live with a fixed wide lens, no zoom.

 

[Wart]

I do not know too many people (read none) who would look at a picture framed on a wall and then go back to the photographers original file to access the EFIX info to find out exactly what went on so your point really is just silly.

It would be silly if thats what I was saying.

Or implying in any manner.

Its that if you knew or could see the conditions shot under you would know why a P&S couldn't have taken these. Seriously.

I'm going to do as Andy requests and drop this so the thread can get back to the original topic.

 

[smoke king]

I just wanted to say that I appreciate everybodys input on this, from lo-tech to hi-tech to everything in-between.

Its been tremendously helpful if for no other reason than that I now have a new found appreciation for pro, and semi-pro photographers and what it takes to execute their craft at that level. No wonder good photographers charge so much!!

Besides, Now I can drop some of these terms and acronyms (probably write them in my palm like I did in school) and floor the kid waiting on me at Circuit City!!

My sincerest thanks to all who contributed.

 

[Barbara L]

If we have thoroughly confused you enough, is it safe to assume you will be buying Mrs. SK a sketchpad and pencils for Christmas?

Or you could get her a "Polarock" camera (remember the Flintstones' camera with the bird that chiseled out a picture on a little stone tablet?)!

Barbara

 

[smoke king]

If we have thoroughly confused you enough, is it safe to assume you will be buying Mrs. SK a sketchpad and pencils for Christmas?

Or you could get her a "Polarock" camera (remember the Flintstones' camera with the bird that chiseled out a picture on a little stone tablet?)!

Barbara

Not so much confused as "enlightend" , Barb. Its better to be over informed than under informed!!

And the Polarock! Do I remember it? I remember when that episode premiered!!

 

[Barbara L]

...And the Polarock! Do I remember it? I remember when that episode premiered!!

Unfortunately, so do I! I was still young at that point (around 8), but I do remember when the Flintstones started. A lot of people now don't realize that it was the first prime-time cartoon, for adults! Hmmmm, a clean cartoon for adults! What a concept!

Barbara