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Old 06-12-2014, 02:13 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by GotGarlic View Post
No, I haven't. I'm not comfortable around thousands of guns. I was referring to news reports from 20+ years ago, before Virginia passed the one-handgun-a-month law, since repealed.

I've also seen video of Colin Goddard, a survivor of the massacre at Virginia Tech, buying handguns and rifles, in some cases without even showing ID, with cash, without a background check, at gun shows across the country, to show how easy it is. It's his mission in life to close the loophole where people can buy firearms at gun shows without a background check.
If you are going to make broad statements concerning massive quantities of weapons being sold for cash NQA in gun show parking lots, then invite people down to see for themselves, it might be a good idea to be prepared to back the statement. I am also a recreational and self defense weapons owner legal in both states, and I am not prepared to comment on the worthlessness of gun laws in either state. They work for me. I have not seen sales of guns without a background check, and have not seen the video of which you speak. Again, no comment from me on something I have not seen.

That Cho thing: Cho purchased his weapons under the 1 gun a month law, from a bricks and mortar store, 31 days apart, and passed a background check both times, used stock 10 round magazines, and committed the murders in a gun free zone. The flaw is/was the medical privacy laws, which precludes the dissimenation of medical data to databases.
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:32 PM   #42
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I'm enjoying this spirited conversation by all members but the last couple of posts piqued my curiousity about gun shows.

So I went to Wikipedia. Yeah I know but people who are interested in the topic can change the entries, which can be changed back again by someone who wants to counter the last entry. So it IS the 'people's dictionary' in that sense and anything posted there is under scrutiny for veracity by others.

So, read Wiki about gun shows:

Gun shows in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 06-12-2014, 06:11 PM   #43
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I hesitate to mention this as it might start a riot around here, but um...how about making firearms less accessible? I get that its in your constitution to bear arms, but it seems to me that if you can't get a gun you can't shoot anyone. Its like keeping other dangerous items away from your kids. You turn pot handles to the inside of the range so toddlers can't yank on them, you put plug covers on outlets so they can't stick things in there. If they can't get at the dangerous items they can't use them.

Also, sorry folks, I'm pretty Canadian here. The only guns I've seen are on the hips of our police. I've held one (because my best friend is a cop) and I've shot a BB gun, but if I wanted to buy a handgun I would have to look pretty hard to find one, and then the hoops I'd have to jump through are significant. Finding any kind of automatic or semi automatic would be far more difficult.

Maybe I'm just weird but I would never go through my kids' things. Their rooms and "stuff" belong to them, not me. I'd never have trusted my Mom again if she'd read my diary and so I never read my kids stuff either. I figure I'm savvy enough to pick on when they're acting weird and we can deal with stuff then. I've not seen much reported about the shooter, but I expect we will hear a lot about odd behaviour and isolation.

I've already said some prayers for that town and the family of the young man who was killed. My heart is heavy.
That's why I haven't written a diary since I was a teenager. Not only did she read it, she repeated parts of it and laughed at me.
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Old 06-12-2014, 06:38 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by cave76 View Post
I'm enjoying this spirited conversation by all members but the last couple of posts piqued my curiousity about gun shows.

So I went to Wikipedia. Yeah I know but people who are interested in the topic can change the entries, which can be changed back again by someone who wants to counter the last entry. So it IS the 'people's dictionary' in that sense and anything posted there is under scrutiny for veracity by others.

So, read Wiki about gun shows:

Gun shows in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thanks.

The Wiki assessment is pretty much as my personal experience at gun shows. My questions were not intended as a comment on gun shows, but rather a question about sweeping blanket statements about anything with no supporting evidence.

This is a cooking forum, and I come here for cooking stuff. If anyone is interested in the 2nd, PM me and I will direct you to other sites with proponents of both sides of the 2nd argument. I would guess you would find the discussions spirited.

Meanwhile, I've to go cook dinner.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:00 PM   #45
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Thanks.

The Wiki assessment is pretty much as my personal experience at gun shows. My questions were not intended as a comment on gun shows, but rather a question about sweeping blanket statements about anything with no supporting evidence.

This is a cooking forum, and I come here for cooking stuff. If anyone is interested in the 2nd, PM me and I will direct you to other sites with proponents of both sides of the 2nd argument. I would guess you would find the discussions spirited.

Meanwhile, I've to go cook dinner.
I wasn't doubting you and I understood what your issue was. I have a background in science where supporting evidence is absolutely necessary to back up a statement. It's good that you offer, off site, some supporting evidence that hopefully aren't just testimonials.

Testimonials, which may or may not be true, are often is just what happened to one person or a group of similar minds. It needs more than that to have some real teeth in it. A citation of the VA rules about gun shows and how they're enforced would have teeth. (Of course just because it's a law doesn't mean that law isn't broke, sadly.)

Now, I'll go shopping for the food for my dinner. And your're right, this was all just a segue. Thanks for your contribution.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:09 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Bigjim68 View Post
If you are going to make broad statements concerning massive quantities of weapons being sold for cash NQA in gun show parking lots, then invite people down to see for themselves, it might be a good idea to be prepared to back the statement. I am also a recreational and self defense weapons owner legal in both states, and I am not prepared to comment on the worthlessness of gun laws in either state. They work for me. I have not seen sales of guns without a background check, and have not seen the video of which you speak. Again, no comment from me on something I have not seen.
I described my understanding of the situation, just as you described yours.

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Originally Posted by Bigjim68 View Post
That Cho thing: Cho purchased his weapons under the 1 gun a month law, from a bricks and mortar store, 31 days apart, and passed a background check both times, used stock 10 round magazines, and committed the murders in a gun free zone. The flaw is/was the medical privacy laws, which precludes the dissimenation of medical data to databases.
I agree that much work needs to be done to prevent people who by law should not own guns from obtaining them.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:41 PM   #47
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No one has mentioned media coverage. I think that also contributes to the increase in mass shootings. Just one way to become "famous" because you'll be on TV - that might be the way a person with low self-esteem sees it.

Also, Wiki has a list of how many school shootings have occurred in the U.S. over the centuries. Yup, centuries. It doesn't include other mass shootings like Gabby Gifford or the Aurora movie theater shooter. At quick glance it seems that the majority of shootings that occurred prior to around the mid-60s were single-victim and were probably because of issues with that single victim. Now they seem to be shootings at large gatherings and purely for the heck of it. OR a perceived slight because of the view of the shooter as needing to "get back" at society. That goes back to the issue of identifying, treating, and managing people with mental illnesses.

Also, like pac said, more laws won't assure us of more safety. Let's first start enforcing those laws already on the books and, even more, start punishing those who break the laws. As far as making parents BE parents? I haven't the answer to that one.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:47 PM   #48
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...I agree that much work needs to be done to prevent people who by law should not own guns from obtaining them.
Don't forget there is also the problem of someone getting their hands on guns owned by someone WITH legally obtained guns. Newtown, Chardon, one of the most recent shootings...they all managed to get their gun from those owned by a family member. Maybe is is time to punish the parents for the crimes of their children if this is going to happen.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:52 PM   #49
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Aren't there laws about locking up your guns and ammo and making sure they don't fall into the hands of others?
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:57 PM   #50
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Aren't there laws about locking up your guns and ammo and making sure they don't fall into the hands of others?
No, unless you count that mine are behind my locked doors. If I had a child in the house, I would not HAVE to lock them up any better than they are now. But, I would have the good sense to teach my child about guns and make sure they do not have access to them without parental supervision.
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