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Old 05-20-2008, 10:08 PM   #51
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I still don't know where you get this idea they need to be replace more often than MACs? My last DELL desktop I had for 6 years, did upgrades on it after owning it for 3 years, then sold it to a friend two years ago that still has it and still uses it to this day (mostly for World of Warcraft). My moms DELL is 8 years old, and my other friends HP desktop is 10 years old running Media Center, WOW, and Office XP faster than most computers today. Course this is because it has a true powerhouse processor, a 3.4ghz HT P4.
I updated my laptop cause DWs has been abused, not because it is outdated or no longer runs what she needs it to. It is 6 years old, and if not for the youngest daughters abuse she would still be using it long into the future. It does still run, but the power cord connection has problems and there are a couple of spots on the display that Abby did something to and caused dark spots. Heck, I gave my FIL a DELL laptop, PII, six years ago that he still uses today, it is about 12 years old now.
Maybe the mis perception is because people don't know that they can be upgraded cheaply? Or that they don't realize that most programs are still being designed to run on processors and systems built 8 years ago? All I know is for the price of one MAC with the features of my new DELL I got three DELLs instead. I will take three over one any day, and I can't speak for anyone else, but all my upgrades work in the background and do not interfere with my day to day running of the computer. So after initial set up and programing it the way I want it not the way Apple says I should want it, I spend 100% of my time using it to do what I want to do. Anyone spending 60% of their time with updates and uninstalls, etc should just re-format their hard drive and start over cause that is one messed up system.
Bill Gates is wealthy because the consumer made him wealthy, because people preferred the customizable PC to the one size fits all MAC idea. And as for monopolies, thank the lord MAC didn't win the wars, because they make the computer AND the OS. Even less choice with them than with MS. If they had won, they would have been forced apart years ago, companies like DELL, HP, Sony, Toshiba, Etc would still exist but you would have a choice of mainstream OSX or small time MS or Linux. Which means MAC would be the one having to develop an OS to run on 1000 difference configurations not just one, and being dominant they would be the one struggling to keep the user secure against thousands of malware writers.
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:24 PM   #52
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And on that note, I bow out. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard that a MAC bought 12 years ago is being used in a school after being donated by DH and it has never needed an update, upgrade, etc. and yet it still functions and runs new programs, etc.... But THAT is for DH to tell you about. He is better with computers than I ever will be. As far as my experience with computers, in the last year I have been using a dell at home, the year before that on an hp, and before that with a home built, the MAC is easier and less frustrating for lil ol me that knows just enough to get by, but not enough if something bad happens....
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:07 PM   #53
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Maverick:

You're fortunate you have the skills to do the things you do to your families Dells so they will work well. The issue is that you are put in a position where you must do so because the OS stinks.

We poor souls who don't have those skills are forced to deal with PCs and Vista as they comeout of the box and all the issues in these posts and more. That is scary to me. I canot and will not deal with that.

To everyone but a technically trained person, a computer is only a tool, nothing more. Tools must be functional and easy to use.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:23 PM   #54
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Maverick,

It seems like you're at least moderately computer savvy, and s such a lot of the issues that plague the average user simply aren't an issue to you, either because you know how to prevent them or or how to resolve them swiftly.

I do IT support, so I know a thing or two about computers, and even more about how impossible a task it would be to idiot-proof Windows (no offense to anyone). As an IT Pro. I deal with Windows issues daily, so solving and/or preventing Windows issues is not an problem for me in the slightest. However, at home I've been a Mac user since the rollout of OS X. I love that it is simple, that it is incredibly intuitive, and isn't really plagued by problems the way Windows is, either in type, volume, or severity. It's just easy to use, and while I know how to tell my computer what to do, be it Mac or PC, I'll always prefer to use the one that does it simpler.

They're different Operating systems that really cater to different types of users. I'll be the first to admit that I don't think OS X would survive a day as an enterprise level OS; not because it's bad but simply because it hasn't been built for that type of support. Windows is THE business system; it's unavoidable and omnipresent, and as such it makes sense that users who use it would like their home PCs to be compatible or familiar. It's my personal opinion that this is why Windows has so many bugs... it IS nigh on imopossble to be both a great system for business and for consumers. They don't do a bad job... it's just that Apple has chosen to focus on the consumer level user (and sometimes small to midsize businesses) rather than try to be the OS of choice for every task.


I think for the purposes of this post, we can generally agree that Vista, and perhaps Windows in general is not the friendliest OS you can buy. Does it run on cheap machines? Sure. Can you take it just about anywhere for support? You bet. That doesn't mean its easy to use.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:30 PM   #55
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Microsofts marketing department must be working over time if everyone thinks they HAVE to buy a new PC with Vista installed. You don't. I went to HP, DELL, Toshiba, and Sony. All of them offer choices on the operating system, some from XP to Media Center to Vista, some only Media Center or Vista.
I would recommend buying a PC with either XP or Media Center pre-installed for you so there is nothing you have to do and you never have to deal with Vista. That easy. I only recommend MACs for light usage as they are very touchy. Even a small drop can joggle the wireless card and cause it to stop working. Since it isn't plug and play, that means an expensive repair unless you are good at taking it apart and re-soldering it back in place. I think people can handle swapping something out by removing a cover and a couple of screws easier than they can removing half the case then unsoldering the component then re-soldering the new one.
Everything is a trade off. I recommend PCs over MACs not because of Software, but because of Hardware. My experience in selling, repairing, and building them has taught me that the hardware on PCs is easier to work with than a MAC. That translates into money down the line as an OS can always be re-installed by broken hardware has to be replaced.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:31 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick2272 View Post
I ordered my new DELL online, and I downgraded from Vista to Media Center, they also had XP still available. I would consider, if I was you, calling DELL and demanding an explanation for the lie. Perhaps after putting them on the spot and going to a supervisor or manager, you can weedle a CD for XP Pro for your computer. Then you can install it over Vista and be done with it.
Just for everyone's info. depending on which model Dell you are purchasing, you may or may not have the ability to downgrade to WinXP. You can always call them and have Xp installed on your system no matter what model it is, but they don't really advertise it, and they often make you pay extra. On Dell's website, they "Reccommend Windows Vista Business", which is why it can be hard to get them to load XP onto your configuration.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:34 PM   #57
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I clicked a button that said "Windows Media Center Edition". That was it. they also recommended three years support, a faster processor, more memory, larger hard drive, I didn't have to click on any if I didn't want to. It is just a recommendation.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:38 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick2272 View Post
I only recommend MACs for light usage as they are very touchy.
I've never had any issues even close to this. My Mac laptop has been flung from its carrying case onto stone steps when the strap on a laptop bag broke. The casing chipped a little, but no performance issue.

I've only ever had 2 hardware issues with Macs, and one of them was our own fault. During an electrical storm my dad laughed in the face of good sense and left the machine plugged in and turned on. He wasn't laughing after the power surge! Actually everything worked fine except for the ethernet card, which was fried. This was a 1st Gen iMac, the little colored ones, and we still use it today. The other issue was for my g/f's iBook, purchased in 2004, which we had to purchase a new battery for a couple of month's ago.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:55 PM   #59
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I just got a new computer that has Vista. So far so good. It's a heck of alot better than what I had before.
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Old 05-21-2008, 12:15 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by college_cook View Post
I've never had any issues even close to this. My Mac laptop has been flung from its carrying case onto stone steps when the strap on a laptop bag broke. The casing chipped a little, but no performance issue.

I've only ever had 2 hardware issues with Macs, and one of them was our own fault. During an electrical storm my dad laughed in the face of good sense and left the machine plugged in and turned on. He wasn't laughing after the power surge! Actually everything worked fine except for the ethernet card, which was fried. This was a 1st Gen iMac, the little colored ones, and we still use it today. The other issue was for my g/f's iBook, purchased in 2004, which we had to purchase a new battery for a couple of month's ago.
When I ran my repair business I got lots of calls for repairs for MACs, most I could do nothing about unfortunately. I also got lots of calls for repairs for PCs, it ran about even. I never found one to be better built than the other, just found PCs easier to work on and repair.
Everyone has different experiences. As was just pointed out, some users are very happy with Vista and love it, others hate it. I know people that have had nothing but hardware problems with PCs, some who have had their MAC in for repairs a dozen times. Like anything else, everyone has their lemons I guess.
For me it always boiled down to usage. I would get calls from college students asking me to build them a cheap PC, instead I would turn them to MAC and they were always glad I did. Others needed a PC that did it all for the entire family and that is what they got. I built two customs for the church eight years ago and they are working perfectly to this day with no upgrades and no updates since they are not connected to the Internet. If they had the money I would have gotten them MACs since the Pastor knows nothing about PCs, would have been easier for him. Still, they meet his needs to this day.
I don't stand behind PCs 100%, but I wont stand behind MACs 100% either. Based on what Andy has indicated so far, I would suggest a MAC for him, I think it would do him just fine. But not even MAC will guarantee their product for as long as he owns it. I just don't want anyone making a decision based on misconceptions or partial information. For instance, reading up on complaints for Vista, seems to me a disproportionate number of them are coming from DELL users. So if Vista is running better on HP or other brands, then not all of the fault can fall on MS, some has to be passed on to DELL.
I can also say, after looking over the kids DELL computers, I am almost ready to cancel my DELL on order and go back to HP. HP is much better built and way more solid than their DELLs. It was not a good choice for a kids computer in retrospect.
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