Your dental reports...anyone else detest it as much as I?

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If you don't have insurance and are tight for money..try going to a Dental school for your work..Usually you only have to pay for materials and you get the latest techniques and very through care. Thats what I did when my son needed braces years ago..think I only paid about $2000.(or less) for over 3 years of care.
 
Don't even go there I have terible teethand and bad gums, even cleaning I have to do every 3 month...
 
My son and d-i-l did just what you suggested, Sage, as they don't have insurance and were quite happy with the dental school. As long as you don't have an immediate emergency (it does take awhile to get an apptmt.) they got very good care and everything was supervised..........


By way, I do like my dentist's office---everyone is very friendly and he has chairs with massagers, and they offer warm neck wraps as well.......he just was having a bad day with me constantly closing my mouth on him and was afraid he'd damage the cracked tooth....after he realized that TMJ syndrome was involved he was far more understanding on the next trip....no, I wouldn't trade my dentist for anyone and he's 35ish young so he'll hopefully be around for a long time........Ha!
 
In general I don't mind the dentists, it's generally the snotty staff that look at you like you're green when you tell them "You told me it would be $X and that's all I have, bill me for the rest." I have this theory, if the mechanic with the high school education knows enough to not work on my car without my approval on the repairs, why don't the college educated dentists? AND why should I pay for optional services they've done without telling me knowing insurance won't cover them? They did some "pulp cap" on my daughter and didn't warn me, didn't ask me, just did it and the insurance didn't cover it. How is that MY fault?
 
Well, first things first. The best way to select a dentist , as with many other things , is by recommendations from a friend, relative or someone who u know and trust, Not by 1-800 -dentist ( a paid service by dentists, about $2000 a month) or from and insurance list ( dentist willing to sign on to a plan and receive crappy prices in exchange for volume of patients. Sure, you can coordinate the two. When I have had patients whose insurance changed, and they were no longer willing to come to our practice, I told them to bring in the insurance list and I would see if there was anyone that i would, or more importantly wouldnt recommend for them to see.

As far as dentists continuously hurting people ( their patients) , remember , a tooth is alive , and so is he patient. Therefore, it is a surgery that is being performed which, in other medical fields, you are often under sedation while the procedure is being performed. Now, including my office, sedation is offered, and sure, for an extra fee, you can be ' knocked out' while we perform all procedures, including the ' poking with a sharp instrument' ' scraping and scaling' along with everything else.

As far as the procedures being performed without telling in advance, sure , that doesnt make sense in most cases. Sure, we are selling our services, and you should be aware of what is being done ahead of time, and what the insurance is ' expected ' to pay, although, without sending things in for pre-approval, it is impossible to guarantee that the service will be covered, and also, the maximum of your benefits must be considered as well. On the other hand, there are some procedures that may not be predictable, in the case of the ' pulp cap' When a deep filling is performed , we know it is deep, but have no idea exactly how close it is to the nerve until the procedure is underway. Once the nerve is exposed, doesnt leave too many options Pulp cap or extraction. SO even if the initial intent was to do do a filling, if the cavity was too deep, gotta do what you gotta do. I know I will tell my patients that the filling is deep ahead of time, and there is risk of nerve exposure and what the options are if that happens. Often the patient will say ' just put a filling in it' and that they dont want the root canal. But, this isnt a realistic option. All the decay must be removed. If not, there will be nerve involvement anyway. So better do it at a predictable time, then wait for the unexpected thanks giving, christmas , new years ... toothache, when no one is open, and your stuck waiting in the emergency room for 4 hours just to get some antibiotics, pain meds and possible a shot of anesthetic.

Finally, although not all cases, many reasons people come to the dentist only when they have a toothache, so a simple problem that may have existed a few years ago, now is a root canal or extraction. Sure, much of this happens due to bad experiences. And I know there are phobia's. But the truth is, coming the 2 times a year for the check up, x-rays and cleaning will save a lot of money, and a lot of fearful, painful visits. A filling is about $150 +/- , if neglected, 1 or 2 years later, it is a Root canal, post and crown which is about $1500.

People have no problems bringing their cars in for the oil changes, replacing brakes and tires to service everyday wear and tear. Remember that we eat several times a day, every day. Years ago, average age of humans was 30 -40. now its about 70 - 80 , so we are asking a lot from our teeth. Need to maintain them, just as we do our cars. Sure it is uncomfortable, sometimes painful, and fearful. Sure, there are a bunch of quacks out there. My suggestion is, as mentioned earlier, find out from someone who u trust, who they use. Go for a consult first. Ask for a tour of the office or to meet the staff. Check for cleanliness. Bring a list of questions. Hopefully this will bring better experiences .

Hey, I did this all on my day off!!!!! How about we talk some food :) I like that topic better .
 
Thanks Larry, you sure made a lot of sense. I happen to love my Dentist- because he has never hurt me !! He is also up on everything new, just a great guy. I used to be so afraid - no more - he knows how to give novocain !! Correctly !!! God Bless good Dentist !!
 
Well, to be perfectly honest, My graduating class was about 110 dentists, and realistically, i would only trust about 5 of them to do work on me :)

And when I go to the doctors office, I always pay attention to how im treated there, from the very first phone call, to the front desk, to the nurse who walks me back ..... and i compare it to how my staff treats our patients. It amazes me how rude, uncaring, unfriendly the staff could be sometimes. It is situations like that which make me appreciate my staff even more.

Also, about telling the dentist you hate them or things like that, dont worry. I hear it at least once a day, probably even more. The second most popular complaint is the sound of the drill, then the taste of the anesthesia..... the list goes on and on. Its just part of the job. I never get offended.
 
Well, to be perfectly honest, My graduating class was about 110 dentists, and realistically, i would only trust about 5 of them to do work on me :)

And when I go to the doctors office, I always pay attention to how im treated there, from the very first phone call, to the front desk, to the nurse who walks me back ..... and i compare it to how my staff treats our patients. It amazes me how rude, uncaring, unfriendly the staff could be sometimes. It is situations like that which make me appreciate my staff even more.

Also, about telling the dentist you hate them or things like that, dont worry. I hear it at least once a day, probably even more. The second most popular complaint is the sound of the drill, then the taste of the anesthesia..... the list goes on and on. Its just part of the job. I never get offended.
:)Larry, I have never had a problem with a dentist I had to get quite a bit of work when I was older due to to neglect as a child.Im glad they do what they do. Americans have the best teeth in the world and I have always wanted my teeth to stay nice I was lucky my teeth grew in straight and and the work I had done was could have been worse except I was lucky to have good teeth to begin with.But I hafto say I dont care for a dentist that doesn't take the time to get the novacaine in carefully, as long as Im numb you can do what you want as I would like to keep my teeth as long as possible. Dentists can perform miracles in my eyes I've seen what they can do on tv totally amazing.All I wish is that I had a dentist as a relative and a lawyer and a CPA and a doctor and a and a:LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
As far as the procedures being performed without telling in advance, sure , that doesnt make sense in most cases. Sure, we are selling our services, and you should be aware of what is being done ahead of time, and what the insurance is ' expected ' to pay, although, without sending things in for pre-approval, it is impossible to guarantee that the service will be covered, and also, the maximum of your benefits must be considered as well. On the other hand, there are some procedures that may not be predictable, in the case of the ' pulp cap' When a deep filling is performed , we know it is deep, but have no idea exactly how close it is to the nerve until the procedure is underway. Once the nerve is exposed, doesnt leave too many options Pulp cap or extraction. SO even if the initial intent was to do do a filling, if the cavity was too deep, gotta do what you gotta do. I know I will tell my patients that the filling is deep ahead of time, and there is risk of nerve exposure and what the options are if that happens. Often the patient will say ' just put a filling in it' and that they dont want the root canal. But, this isnt a realistic option. All the decay must be removed. If not, there will be nerve involvement anyway. So better do it at a predictable time, then wait for the unexpected thanks giving, christmas , new years ... toothache, when no one is open, and your stuck waiting in the emergency room for 4 hours just to get some antibiotics, pain meds and possible a shot of anesthetic.
Regarding this in general.....in all fairness if you have a patient that says "what is it going to cost? I NEED to know before I come because I only have enough to cover what you tell me in advance, I need to know exactly" (I was very, very clear I was bringing cash and funds were tight) and THEN to be told "well, we did this without telling you before hand, it'll be an additional $50" and for them to give me attitude is just unacceptable. They were told 3 times before the appointment that I would only have the amount they told me. They knew the score. Then they gave me attitude because I brought what they told me to and they didn't bother to warn me there could be additional charges or even ask me what I wanted. Truth be told, with my insurance the root canal would have been cheaper because they pay for those but not pulp caps. Oh, and never tell a dental office person that "even a mechanic tells you what they are doing before expecting payment for addition work." It doesn't fly well.

Now about that "sell our services" comment. If y'all "sell your services" why can't I get the teeth up front fixed first and use my insurance for the front teeth that others see and would help my self esteem? Why do I have to do things in their order? It's my mouth, my money. My back tooth has been a stump for years, fix the front one that just broke so it doesn't get worse and I can smile without lowering my head. Why is that? Why can't I get what I want fixed? Huh? I'm curious!!
 
Regarding this in general.....in all fairness if you have a patient that says "what is it going to cost? I NEED to know before I come because I only have enough to cover what you tell me in advance, I need to know exactly" (I was very, very clear I was bringing cash and funds were tight) and THEN to be told "well, we did this without telling you before hand, it'll be an additional $50" and for them to give me attitude is just unacceptable. They were told 3 times before the appointment that I would only have the amount they told me. They knew the score. Then they gave me attitude because I brought what they told me to and they didn't bother to warn me there could be additional charges or even ask me what I wanted. Truth be told, with my insurance the root canal would have been cheaper because they pay for those but not pulp caps. Oh, and never tell a dental office person that "even a mechanic tells you what they are doing before expecting payment for addition work." It doesn't fly well.

Now about that "sell our services" comment. If y'all "sell your services" why can't I get the teeth up front fixed first and use my insurance for the front teeth that others see and would help my self esteem? Why do I have to do things in their order? It's my mouth, my money. My back tooth has been a stump for years, fix the front one that just broke so it doesn't get worse and I can smile without lowering my head. Why is that? Why can't I get what I want fixed? Huh? I'm curious!!
:)I think thats because the dentist wants to address the more worse tooth first the back teeth need it because more bacteria is back there and it gets worse quick the front teeth are cosmetic unless its another issue. You really dont want to lose any of your back or side teeth if you do then you get a domino effect where all your teeth start falling sideways as the missing tooth is not there to hold the all the other teeth together.
 
:)I think thats because the dentist wants to address the more worse tooth first the back teeth need it because more bacteria is back there and it gets worse quick the front teeth are cosmetic unless its another issue. You really dont want to lose any of your back or side teeth if you do then you get a domino effect where all your teeth start falling sideways as the missing tooth is not there to hold the all the other teeth together.
But it's MY money and my mouth and I'm not paying for my back teeth to be pulled and wait 6 months for anything to happen when I can pay now and at least be able to smile. In my opinion, my front teeth are far more important than pulling my back teeth that aren't causing health problems. And front teeth aren't just cosmetic, the have to bite food and can chew if necessary, but if they don't fix them, they are going to end up having to be pulled too.
 
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Well, as far as the money thing, sure, anyone should be notified in advance. But as I mentioned earlier, once you reach the nerve, you cant turn back. It would be wrong to fill a tooth with a nerve exposure, and sometimes it is impossible to see the severity of the lesion prior to starting. That is why i try my best to give all options prior to starting a procedure. Medicine isnt an exact science so sometimes the unexpected happens.

As for why do molars before the front teeth. One main reason is that the back teeth stabilize your bite and keep the front teeth from hitting each other too hard. Back teeth are for grinding, chewing, force .. Front teeth ( incisors) are meant to incise, or cut, but into..... Obviously many people have different bites, and the rules dont apply %100 to everyone, but if you fix the front teeth and dont have a stable posterior bite, the heavy forces on the front teeth could fracture the new crown, bonding whatever ... remember , porcelain is basically glass, and will shatter under extreme, unwanted and poorly directed force. If there is a stable bite, and it is only one molar that is a problem, sure, why not do the anterior teeth first. But the bite must be evaluated first to ensure a successful case. Im very sure you can find someone to do what you want which would give you immediate satisfaction, but by cutting corners, may not last as long as the dentist who wanted to do it ' the right way' I think if the dentist decides to do things a certain order, especially if it is not the order the patient wants, then it should be explained why he/ she chooses to do it that way. Remember , it is your body, your health, your insurance and your money, so you do have the right to know and the right to ask. But there usually are reasons for why we do what we do.

Quick example: A person who only has front teeth ( no back teeth) will continuously put too much pressure on their front teeth. because most peoples front teeth have a slight over bite ( which is normal) , this excessive force continuously pushes upper teeth outward causing bone loss and movement and spaces between the teeth. If this same person has some back teeth to prevent the front teeth from hitting too hard, the problem could have been avoided.
 
But it's MY money and my mouth and I'm not paying for my back teeth to be pulled and wait 6 months for anything to happen when I can pay now and at least be able to smile. In my opinion, my front teeth are far more important than pulling my back teeth that aren't causing health problems. And front teeth aren't just cosmetic, the have to bite food and can chew if necessary, but if they don't fix them, they are going to end up having to be pulled too.
:)I understand exactly what you are saying. What it really gets down to is how expensive it is to get any kind of dental work so you hafto pick and choose whats important to you. I really do wish it was more affordable I would go more often if I could afford it. I remember in my early 30s just barely having enough money to get one front tooth bleached but it was soo important to me. I know what it means to have a great smile and the stress of trying to come up with money just to get by.
 
One more quick thing. Unless someone presents with an emergency, the first visit is usually to get updated x-rays, overall exam and to provide a treatment plan. Usually the treatment plan will consist of a few different options , some being better, more expensive and more functional. The difference in time to complete and cost can be huge. A denture can cost a few thousand dollars and take a few visits to complete where implants can cost 10's of thousands of dollars and take a year to complete. Many times ill listen to what the patients needs, desires are . Ill give them a ball park figure. And when they tell me at the end of he visit which options they are most interested in, ill have a printout of all the procedures and costs available for them to take home, read over and compare. Ill print out all options if they like. Also, we will do our best to give and idea of what the insurances will cover. Unfortunately, it could take a few weeks for the insurance companies to receive, review and get back to us so an exact figure on what insurance would pay may take some time. Also, usually there is a maximum the insurance will pay , like $2000 + or - . So in a case that is $5000, even if insurance will cover all the procedures, once they reach $2000, they stop payment. Sure , it is sometimes an option to break it up over two years to maximize the benefits.

If the patient doesnt like what they have been presented, or doesnt like the office , or wants a second opinion, they have the legal right to get copies of the x-rays ( may be charged a small duplicating fee like $25 ) and get copies of the notes faxed to another dentist. So i guess what im saying is, go for a consult. Get everything in writing and explained. Go for a second or third opinion if desired.

Its bad enough we have to deal with people who openly claim they hate us and the experience, why would we also want to piss them off by not telling prices or by doing other unethical things ?? I know i dont do it, but there are all kinds out there. So, as a consumer, which is basically what you are, ask questions, get the info and make an educated decision.
 
Well, as far as the money thing, sure, anyone should be notified in advance. But as I mentioned earlier, once you reach the nerve, you cant turn back. It would be wrong to fill a tooth with a nerve exposure, and sometimes it is impossible to see the severity of the lesion prior to starting. That is why i try my best to give all options prior to starting a procedure. Medicine isnt an exact science so sometimes the unexpected happens.
I guess you aren't understanding my issue/question. What gives them the RIGHT to be nasty to me when I don't have more than the amount they originally told me to bring? IMO NOTHING. They have no right to have an attitude because they didn't call me before proceeding and then expecting me to have more than they told me three separate times. I still owe them and will never pay because of the attitude they gave me.


As for why do molars before the front teeth. One main reason is that the back teeth stabilize your bite and keep the front teeth from hitting each other too hard. Back teeth are for grinding, chewing, force .. Front teeth ( incisors) are meant to incise, or cut, but into..... Obviously many people have different bites, and the rules dont apply %100 to everyone, but if you fix the front teeth and dont have a stable posterior bite, the heavy forces on the front teeth could fracture the new crown, bonding whatever ... remember , porcelain is basically glass, and will shatter under extreme, unwanted and poorly directed force. If there is a stable bite, and it is only one molar that is a problem, sure, why not do the anterior teeth first. But the bite must be evaluated first to ensure a successful case. Im very sure you can find someone to do what you want which would give you immediate satisfaction, but by cutting corners, may not last as long as the dentist who wanted to do it ' the right way' I think if the dentist decides to do things a certain order, especially if it is not the order the patient wants, then it should be explained why he/ she chooses to do it that way. Remember , it is your body, your health, your insurance and your money, so you do have the right to know and the right to ask. But there usually are reasons for why we do what we do.

Quick example: A person who only has front teeth ( no back teeth) will continuously put too much pressure on their front teeth. because most peoples front teeth have a slight over bite ( which is normal) , this excessive force continuously pushes upper teeth outward causing bone loss and movement and spaces between the teeth. If this same person has some back teeth to prevent the front teeth from hitting too hard, the problem could have been avoided.
Again, kind of not the question. If it's MY money and MY mouth, why is it "either do this or we won't treat you?" Because here it is 6 months later and I still haven't had ONE tooth fixed because they won't do what I want done. It's my money and you're providing a service, I should have some control. As it is, my control is getting nothing done since they won't fix what I have the money to fix. I don't have anything other than stubs in the back anyway, why not prop the front teeth and then I'll feel like it's worth fixing the back? I am not going to have $5,000 extra dollars this year, why not do what will make me feel better instead of forcing me to feel worse about myself?

Sorry, Larry, this is just very frustrating and very personal to me. A week from today I have to greet over 750 people and I won't even be able to smile at them because I don't have money coming out my tush to pay for all this up front.
 
I understand %100, and to be perfectly honest, Im sure there is some solution to make things cosmetically acceptable without doing it in the proper order. Without knowing the the exact condition it is impossible to comment on anyones situation. But im we are force with many different situations, most not being ideal, and we do have to ' bend ' the rules to each individual case. I cant answer for the path that they took. Hopefully everything will work out in the end.
 
Larry, oil changes don't hurt. Of course I take my car in to be fixed. It may pain the car but I feel nothing except in the pocket and I'm willing to do that.
From the dentist pulling at my cheek, and tugging at it like I was a little school boy and a big old man was yanking as he remembered from his own youth, why did he do that when prepping me for the dang needle? Oh then, he takes out the needle, at this point I have white knuckles and he starts rubbing HARD on my cheek back and forth back and forth, like trying to break up the nov and make it spread out or something. Sheesh, I was sore for days, when I looked closer in the mirror at my darling puss, I WAS BRUISED on my cheek where he'd rubbed so hard over and over again. His lady's poked me on various occasions trying to get out the cement that they'd or someone had left in there. Can they not see my gums and teeth and cheeks are in the way? Do they just prod to hurt me? I'm thinkin oh yeah...:blink:
 
:)Ive had my dentist accamodate me big time by grinding down 2-3 teeth at a time as I live in a very isolated place and it is a 4 hour drive just to get to him but he also knew I could take it.Then he would make sure to get the lab to get my crowns made on time. I think that comes with living in the South West where some people live so far away from anything.
 
Larry, oil changes don't hurt. Of course I take my car in to be fixed. It may pain the car but I feel nothing except in the pocket and I'm willing to do that.
From the dentist pulling at my cheek, and tugging at it like I was a little school boy and a big old man was yanking as he remembered from his own youth, why did he do that when prepping me for the dang needle? Oh then, he takes out the needle, at this point I have white knuckles and he starts rubbing HARD on my cheek back and forth back and forth, like trying to break up the nov and make it spread out or something. Sheesh, I was sore for days, when I looked closer in the mirror at my darling puss, I WAS BRUISED on my cheek where he'd rubbed so hard over and over again. His lady's poked me on various occasions trying to get out the cement that they'd or someone had left in there. Can they not see my gums and teeth and cheeks are in the way? Do they just prod to hurt me? I'm thinkin oh yeah...:blink:
:) How long ago was that? Dentists dont do that now, if so you have the wrong dentist. They were trying in those day by pulling the cheek and rubbing to do exactly what you said distribute the Novocaine. Now they just do do tiny injections wait a bit and continue further slowly until they get where they need to be, no pain at all.
 
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Larry, oil changes don't hurt. Of course I take my car in to be fixed. It may pain the car but I feel nothing except in the pocket and I'm willing to do that.:blink:
LEFSElover, I don't think I've spent $5000 on my car in service in 10 years let alone in the span of only 6 months. Heck, for 5 Grand I could own a new car that wouldn't take 5 grand in repairs in the next 10 years and I could finance it for $100 a month. :ROFLMAO:
 
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