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Old 03-18-2005, 05:58 PM   #11
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Waaza, I think of a sauce as something that just 'dresses' the meat/fish; it may be a complementary flavor, or something to really spark up an otherwise bland piece of meat - like a chicken breast.
<snip>
I would agree, the sauce can be made from other things which will probably not have seen the food over which it is poured, before.
<snip>
A gravy, on the other hand, evokes memories of grandma's mashed taters, roast chicken, and is ladeled liberally over the meat!
<snip> yes, but surely made from the meat juices?<snip>

Cooking the food in their sauce, as is done with a lot of Indian dishes, is one way to cook; it's more of a braise.
<snip>

This is where I would differ. Curry is not a sauce. Many 'curries' are made from pan-fried meat, to which spices and other ingredients are added, and the whole lot is simmered until cooked. This method surely produces a gravy, in its broadest sense, because it will incorporate the meat juices (or veg for that matter). Braising is something completely different, where meat is combined with fat and water-based ingredients, and cooked in a low oven for a long time. At the end of cooking, there isn't much gravy left. This kind of Indian cuisine is called a korma, it means braising, and is a method of cooking, not a dish per se. And it doesn't mean a mild nutty dish, it can be very (chilli) hot indeed.
<snip>
Pan sauces, however, are usually used when something is pan-fried, or sauteed, or grilled.
Well, not really. If one fries a steak, then combines it with Brandy and cream and other things, then is this a gravy or a sauce, I would say a gravy, as it uses the steak juices, whereas a pan-fried fish may be served with fennel sauce which has not seen a bit of fish, and as you say, there to compliment.
Tricky, isn't it? :p
cheers
Waaza :p
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:15 PM   #12
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Waaza - I do believe you're splitting hairs, here - a pan sauce may indeed use the juices from the meat, as it was made in the pan the meat was cooked in; or it may be a separate sauce, as in a buerre blanc.


I understand curries pretty well, learned Indian cooking from a 'native', and have done quite a bit of it; yes, there are many ingredients, spices, vegetables, dairy, etc. that go into a 'curry' - all of which makes either a sauce or a gravy - IMHO.
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Old 03-19-2005, 03:37 PM   #13
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A gravy is a type of sauce. Just leave it at that.
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Old 03-19-2005, 06:55 PM   #14
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Thank you, IC - a brilliant, succinct, explanation. :)
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Old 03-21-2005, 07:57 AM   #15
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succinct, but incorrect, often caused by brevity, or dumbing down.
As you are quoting French, maybe you should consult Escoffier. In 'Ma Cuisine' he states that sauces are prepared from stocks and roux, all except tomato sauce. What you call a pan sauce he would have called a jus, or gravy, made without flour.
So, a sauce is made with flour and stock (and I would advise using a beef stock with beef, not a chicken stock as in your recipe, and the sugar dissolves, not melts) and a gravy is made from the meat juices, without roux.
If you want to believe something else, of course you will, but you are doing yourself no favours, nor the people who are trying to learn something from you.
cheers
Waaza
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Old 03-21-2005, 10:56 AM   #16
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Ahem...Getting a bit testy here, non? Play nicely, now, chefs! Jouez doucement, s'il vous plait.
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Old 03-21-2005, 11:10 AM   #17
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I'm bowing out of this discussion, as I don't believe in personal attacks. You win, Waaaaaaza.
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Old 03-21-2005, 11:23 AM   #18
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Smile

I am sorry if you think it was a personal attack, it certainly was not meant that way at all. You have an opinion, and so do I. I state mine with what I believe, and try to back it up with reference. I am sorry if you think disagreeing with your opinion is personal, it isn't, and it is not meant to be.
If I am guilty of fighting my corner (alone, may I point out!) then it is from a passion for the art of cooking, and a belief that we have a responsibility to preserve all that is good with it.
So I appologise for any ill feeling caused. It was not meant, life's too short.
cheers
Waaza
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Old 03-21-2005, 11:34 AM   #19
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Marmalady and Waaza: Here's a nice fresh jar of roux for each of you and some demi-glace. Kiss and make up???
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Old 03-21-2005, 11:37 AM   #20
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I've seen the "is it sauce or gravy" discussion go in circles for ages - there never seems to be an agreeable definition.

Anyway I love pan "whatever you call them" and use them often!
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