Eating Etiquette

[kitchenelf]

We seem to have gotten a wee bit off-topic here i.e., "suits" with a smile = used car salesmen??????

I think we all agree manners are important and shows respect for those around us - and respect for ourselves. Bad manners are just that - bad. If we have good manners we don't correct people with bad manners. How we choose to eat our meals, at our own tables, in our own homes, is nobody's business but ours be it formal because that's what makes us feel good or relaxed because that's what is more enjoyable. When in Rome do as the Romans do - i.e., I bet I would eat my pizza with a knife and fork versus picking it up like I like to do at home because that is what everyone else does and I am not going to eat in a way that appears I have bad manners because I don't.

However, burping may be good manners in some cultures but DO NOT BURP IN PUBLIC is a part of my DNA makeup - so it's just not going to happen!

 

[Andy M.]

...However, burping may be good manners in some cultures but DO NOT BURP IN PUBLIC is a part of my DNA makeup - so it's just not going to happen!

Don't worry, elf, I've got your back on this one.

 

[kitchenelf]

Thanks Andy

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Kitchenelf - Sometimes I look at things people do and just wonder about them (both the people and things). I definetly don't mean in a demeaning way either, more of an inquisitive mode (I even wonder why I do things the way I do). For instance, what is the purpose of a tie? Or how about when women wear nylons that make their legs a different color than their arms? I guess I feel comfortable around people who have a much more simple appearance. When I see someone with a suit and one of those un-naturally large smiles I just can't help thinking that he's going to try and sell me an '88 Toyota Tercel or dual-function coffee-maker/waffle press...

Anyhoo, I wouldn't let a belch rip in the middle of a quiet restaurant, but sitting around with people at a BBQ or in a Sports Bar I might. I guess you can call me "Shrek"...

 

[kitchenelf]

Well Nicholas, I guess you would feel quite comfortable around me right now - when I feel a bit "blue" I wear my father's old, tatty, blue, terrycloth bathrobe - no tie anymore so I pin it. But then again, this "outfit" might be just as unapproachable as a suit and tie.

I'm just trying to keep the thread on topic, that's all.

 

[ironchef]

It all started with IronChef's The Christmas Degustation Menu 2006.

How in the h.ell did my degustation menu spawn this thread?

 

[kitchenelf]

How in the h.ell did my degustation menu spawn this thread?

ummmmm - because you weren't here and we all agreed that if we needed to blame someone for anything it was ALWAYS your fault............. See, it pays to attend meetings

 

[ironchef]

ummmmm - because you weren't here and we all agreed that if we needed to blame someone for anything it was ALWAYS your fault............. See, it pays to attend meetings

Aaah. Well I didn't get the memo. That's ok though, my ex-gf used to do the same thing so I'm used to it.

 

[Claire]

I haven't read this entire thread, but one thing we all have to remember is that the point of manners and etiquette is to make everyone feel more comfortable. In other words, it is bad manners to act superior and put others down. My mom teases me because I eat like "a left-handed European". In other words, I do not changeover the way most Americans do when cutting meat. But I keep my knife and fork left-right rather than right-left, the way my European friends do. I know most chopsticks etiquette. But short of eating like animals, which I have some friends whose children do, I look the other way.

Over many years, my husband and I have both been asked etiquette questions ... some because many of our friends over the years are foreign born, some because we really have known people who weren't raised to know where the fork goes in a place setting, then found themselves having to go to a formal banquet and were almost in tears with fear.

Here is the all-pupose answer:
#1 -- never be the first to take a bite. Wait and watch. Follow.
#2 -- start at the outside, work in.

For those of you with children, I recommend something Mom did. Periodically have a dinner where you trott out everything you've got. All of it. Make your kids dress up for the occasion (we did this after Sunday mass during the winter). Mom even went so far as to go to yard sales and buy stemware to show her grandchildren how to eat and drink. I threw a party once that was absolutely nothing fancy ... but my neighbors' kids were terrified ... I had cloth napkins and they couldn't figure out where to wipe their fingers. Don't let this be your child.

 

[Claire]

StirBlue, people who show up a couple of hours after I've planned dinner ... well, they won't find any dinner. And yes, I have known some. A half hour, OK. I don't serve dinner for an hour after I've invited people, we sit around and have drinks and appetizers for about an hour. But yes, I have had "friends" who you invite for 6 and they show at 8 or 9. Only once. Because the rest of my guests have eaten and we're having desert when they show up.

 

[lulu]

I am reading this with great interest and a smile. I went to a very traditional English boarding school where strict table etiquette was demanded of us. We ate our fruit with a knife and fork and our asparagus with our fingers. My English family are also pretty old school about manners. BUT the huge overriding rule to good manners as I was taught them was that other peoples bad manners are the real test of good manners, at no time should one make anyone feel uncomfortable about being gauche. I try to adhere to good manners and correct etiquette - IMO they are different, if only slightly, and the former is more important! I live with someone who has innate good manners but was not brought up with "Victorian" etiquette (quotes are because I personally do not see them as Victorian, but its how they have been refered to here). We never clash though because most of the time good manners and correct etiquette correllate exactly. For example, my DH ALWAYS offers his seat on public transport to someone who looks like they need it more (whether because of age, infirmity or heel hieght!) but he once asked why I always stood up when certain people entered the room....he knew he should stand up for a woman, but was surprised that I stood up for women elder/same age-ish as myself. Its just an extention of showing acknowledgement of their being their and ofcourse makes it easier to shake hands or kiss. Never once have I left somewhere and said to DH, "did you notice he/she did not stand up to greet us", it would not bother me if they did not, but I always will!

In reality, I now eat my fruit with my hands and will happily munch pizza out of a box on the sofa in front of a movie and I merrily walk along the street eating - I can only immagine what one of my old teachers might say if they saw me. That does not mean if I ever have children they will not know "the rules", because I still feel they are important and I still use them, most of them, all day every day. Woe betide a son of mine who goes inside anywhere (bar where socially required) with his cap on!

Incidently, in Milan I notice that in a take away-eat on the hoof type pizza place they cut the slice of pizza into bite size pieces and its perfect! Also, much to my mother's horror I often do not wear stockings/tights anymore. The reason is practical, vertiginous open toed sandles and stockings are a leathal combination....I slip all over the place! Hence, closed toe shoes in winter.

Interesting to read other peoples opinions.

 

[Andy M.]

...and this is what it looks like.

 

[CharlieD]

Lulu, you remind me of an incident I had oh, about 2 or so years ago. The older women walked in the room and came to our group, who was seating in few chairs and nobody stood up. Well, I do not care about the "nobodies" but I have been embarrassed to even think about that situation, I could have never done that in my previous life. I don't know if it is life in America, where I am rarely in place where there is not enough chairs, or the fact that I do not use public transportation anymore. Whatever the reason I am still ashamed of my behavior.

Note to administarators: we need "embarassed" smilie here.

 

[buckytom]

charlie's post reminded me of another thing that bothers me. not food etiquette, but etiquette all the same. it's handshaking.

i don't mean x-on/x-off (he hee, a nerd joke. we need a nerd icon), but the act of shaking hands when greeting someone.

if you're a guy shaking another guy's hand, put some of that foream meat into it. i hate shaking hands when it feels like you've grabbed the hand of a dead person or lasagna noodle. you don't have to try to crush the other guy's hand, but do it like you mean it to show the respect you are inferring. and look them in the eyes. again, not like the cold stare of a maniac on a subway, but at least for those few seconds, be a man.

if your'e a woman and you're not the freakin' queen of a country, don't offer me you're hand like i'm supposed to bow and kiss you're knuckles. just a regular ol' handshake will do. you won't impress me either if you try to shake like a man. unless you can curl more than 60 lbs...

and no one should offer the left hand, unless you're right hand is broken, or you're on stage or are running for president.

anyway, getting back to charlie's post: when greeting someone, a man should always stand up, when meeting either a man or woman. again, it's about showing some respect.

 

[licia]

BT, I, too, believed that handshaking should be firm UNTIL I got arthritis and believe me, even a touch can sometimes make me wince. I have RA in my hands and even looking at them seems to hurt sometimes. Gratefully, most people are aware that this can be a problem and have changed, but some haven't and those people I have to avoid like the plague. And I have shaken hands with my left hand if my right hand was worse at the moment. It all depends on your own experience, I suppose.

 

[Shunka]

licia, you bring up a good point that I was thinking of too. I also have painful arthritis in my hands. It has gotten where I have had to say that I would shake their hand but it is too painful. Most people understand and if they don't then that is they problem, IMO.

 

[BreezyCooking]

I agree Licia. In fact, both "Miss Manners" &/or "Dear Abby"/"Ann Landers" brought this subject up several times in their columns in the past.

Many, many people wrote to them saying how mind-bendingly painful it was to be subjected to the handshakes of people (mostly men) who felt it necessary to exert the pressure of a vise for some reason or other.

 

[buckytom]

shunk and licia, sorry, i should have mentioned that of course there's exceptions if someone has physical problems with their arms or hands. i would have been more gentle with a woman in any case.
also, the exceptions apply to not being able to stand up easily, too.

 

[licia]

Thanks, BT. I can tell from reading your posts that you meant no harm. We used to have a pastor that barely brushed your hands when he shook them. I didn't understand it then, but knowing how painful handshaking can be, and realizing he came from a church that had a lot of older people in his congregation, could see that he was being very considerate. I love considerate people!

 

[StirBlue]

I have etiquette issues with people who serve the public. I refer to attendants (waiters,waitress,clerks) with their name tags.
We stopped at a full service restaurant late one evening to order dessert. (nothing fancy, pie cut and stored in a display case) "Patti" came to the table talking on her cell phone and wanted us to point out our order on the menu. I said "Patti is the peach cobbler good today?" She just scribbled down peach cobbler and left.
45 minutes later she came back with one bowl of peach cobbler. There were six people at our table. We were looking at someone's vacation pictures. We had been at a meeting earlier. "Patti can my friends have some too?" Patti says "what?" Then I said "it's getting late Patti; can we have six coffees to go? and box that cobbler, I'll take it with me."
20 minutes later Patti comes to our table and says "your order is at the cashier's stand." We stopped at the cashier stand and I paid for one serving of peach cobbler in a box.
We lol when we saw Patti flip open her cell phone and head off to another table to take an order. (Patti's age is about 30+)