Minced meat frying

[lo2]

Do not is this is the right forum...

Well when you form minced meat to a steak like in burgers. I have heard that it must not be red inside at all. But I say that it does not have to be completely cooked? So am I right or what? Or what is the right approach?

 

[Uncle Bob]

If you mean gound beef when you say minced...formed into a burger patty. I think they say an internal temp. of 155* is the safe zone...I could be wrong but somewhere in that neighborhood...

Hope this helps...

 

[Michael in FtW]

Color doesn't mean as much as the internal temp at the center of the meat, as Uncle Bob noted. For ground (minced) beef - it should be 160ºF/71ºC. Cooking "to color" can lead to being either undercooked (even if not pink), or overcooked.

These are food safety guidelines designed to kill any potential bacteria that could cause food poisoning - in ground/minced meat that is most commonly E. Coli contamination. This is mandatory in restaurants here in the US - only a strong suggestion for cooking at home - nobody can force you to follow the rules at home.

Of course, if you grind/mince your own beef at home - there is a way to do it where 145ºF/63ºC would be considered safe. As I get older I find I'm less likely to take chances with pre-ground meat and grind my own when I want that juicy rare burger.

To answer your question of does it have to be fully cooked ... the answer is it depends on how lucky your feel. If it is, you're safe, if not you're taking a chance.

 

[Robo410]

where does your meat come from? who has handled it? How many times? what is it's quality? etc...how long has it been since it was ground (minced) all play a part in the answer to the question. If you like rare hamburgers, go to a Kosher or Halal market where meat is handled alomst sacredly and you should be ok. Otherwise get your own sirloin and grind your own. Or make minced steak with onions and gravy and go for well done.

When you grind meat you are grinding all that bacteria from the outside of the meat all through the product.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Michael...

I was under the impression(maybe falsely so) that "home ground" burger would carry the same risk for E. coli as would "store bought" burger. Since E. coli (if it is present) would be found on the outside of the meat being ground. So whether ground at home or in a commercial market inevitably some of the bacteria would wind up inside the grind. Is there something I can do prior to grinding at home that would lower the chance of contaminatioin?

Thanks in Advance for you help!!

 

[Michael in FtW]

Uncle Bob - you notice I said there was a way ... but I didn't elaborate.

This only works if you don't go sticking forks, knives, or meat hooks into your raw hunk-o-cow, which will only serve to push any surface bacteria into the interior of the meat.

Bring a pot of water to a full rolling boil ... add the meat ... allow to return to a full boil for 30-60 seconds. Remove the meat, dry the surface, and then cut and grind (using meticulously clean cutting board, knives, and meat grinding equipment). This kills the surface bacteria, and although the surface (1-2 mm) is partially cooked it is mixed into the mass of the meat and you'll not notice it. This let's you cook a moister "safe burger" at 145ºF.

You are right, like usual UB - the bacteria is confined to the surface, unless it's poked in some way.

Truth is ... and I'll NEVER admit that I said this ... the greatest chance of E. Coli contamination comes from ground meat from large processors. I've never had a second thought about grinding my own at home (without the bacteria killing boiling bath) ... or if I known it is ground fresh by my butcher. I cook it rare ... and even eat bites of it raw (a bad habit I've had for about 46 years - since I started cooking unsupervised at the age of 12)! That doesn't mean that what I do is safe or healthy. And, if I'm making burgers for anyone else - they get fully cooked.

 

[Candocook]

I would not have any problem grinding my own meat and cooking a burger rare. I believe that if a restaurant grinds its own meat it can do that also. As Michael said, it is all in knowing the source of your meat.

 

[lulu]

That's basically the rule of thumb I use....if it was bought as steak and ground right there and then at home for cooking rare is fine but bought mince, or mince that has been home ground but left should be cooked through.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Michael...

You da Man!!!
I did notice that you did not elaborate..

Thanks for sharing the "hot water bath" idea...It makes perfectly good sense when you think about it...In the past, I have given the meat a "under running water bath" at the sink just for general cleaning...Not really worrying about E. coli as I prefer my burgers more in the 155*/160* range anyway. But for those of you who like them a little bit on the rare side..your method is a slam dunk for home-ground burger.

Thanks again for the great information!!

 

[tsi88kid]

Wouldn't cooking it medium rare or medium ease your minds a little more if you are worried about E Coli?

 

[StirBlue]

There is one other thing that you have to take into consideration. Many people make additions to their burger meats like an envelope of dry onion soup mix. Some people add a tablespoon of flour per pound or 1/4 cup of seasoned bread crumbs & eggs. Not to mention fresh minced onion and peppers. And the list of additions could go on and on. Not even to mention people who roll their burgers in a dry mixture to form a crust.
These types of burgers need to be cooked through. Many times have I steamed my burgers first and then grilled or fried for a few minutes.
I don't mind meat juices that poach my lettuce and melt my burger bun as long as it is clear meat juice.

 

[Michael in FtW]

Wouldn't cooking it medium rare or medium ease your minds a little more if you are worried about E Coli?

The "instant kill" temp for E. Coli is 158ºF - so cooking a burger to Medium (160ºF) kills any E. Coli, if present. Cooking to medium rare (145ºF) will not kill any E. Coli. Since E. Coli comes from fecal matter in the intestines ... it will only be present in cases of mistakes made in processing - and as long as the solid cuts of meat are not pierced - the bacteria will be confined to the surface of the meat. That is why boiling for 30-60 seconds before grinding will kill the surface bacteria - and make it safe to cook to 145ºF - medium rare. There is also a way to use chlorine or vinegar to do the same thing - I just have not found the time/concentration figures for these methods.

Remember - we're talking about ground/minced meat where the surface of the meat is mixed into the interior - not a steak where the surface will be heated above the "instant kill" point.

There is one other thing that you have to take into consideration. Many people make additions to their burger meats like an envelope of dry onion soup mix. ...

This really goes back to what we have said before - 160ºF for "store bought" ground beef - 145ºF if you want to take the time and trouble to "sanatize" the surface and grind your own.

But, you DID bring up an interesting point ... people who add an egg as a binder to make burgers ... the "instant kill" temp of salmonella is 165ºF - you can also achieve the same goal by cooking the meat to 160ºF and holding it at that temp for a minute or two. Of course, if you use pasturized eggs you don't have to worry about it - and you can cook a burger to 145ºF without any worry.

The color of the meat, and the color of the juices, is NOT an indication of the temperature or degree of doneness. Meat, and juices, may retain a pink color even when cooked to 160ºF, especially if the meat contains any sodium nitrites. I'm not going to go look up all the sources - but some dried soup mixes and fresh celery, bell peppers, onions and garlic contain them.

 

[Claire]

It depends on if you like to gamble. I like beef rare and raw, but would never, ever, ever serve ground meat that way to anyone but ME and occaisionally my husband. There are so many things we ate as kids that are now considered no-nos now. I would never eat ground meat at any restaurant around here if it was rare (in other words, I don't period), only at home where I know who has handled it and where I bought it. And as already said, if it meatloaf or meatballs or something similar, I use my trusty meat thermometer and get them done to whatever the appropriate temperature is (I keep a chart on the inside of the cupboard door next to the stove for that purpose).