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Old 02-07-2007, 08:10 AM   #11
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There is one other thing that you have to take into consideration. Many people make additions to their burger meats like an envelope of dry onion soup mix. Some people add a tablespoon of flour per pound or 1/4 cup of seasoned bread crumbs & eggs. Not to mention fresh minced onion and peppers. And the list of additions could go on and on. Not even to mention people who roll their burgers in a dry mixture to form a crust.
These types of burgers need to be cooked through. Many times have I steamed my burgers first and then grilled or fried for a few minutes.
I don't mind meat juices that poach my lettuce and melt my burger bun as long as it is clear meat juice.

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Old 02-09-2007, 02:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by tsi88kid
Wouldn't cooking it medium rare or medium ease your minds a little more if you are worried about E Coli?
The "instant kill" temp for E. Coli is 158F - so cooking a burger to Medium (160F) kills any E. Coli, if present. Cooking to medium rare (145F) will not kill any E. Coli. Since E. Coli comes from fecal matter in the intestines ... it will only be present in cases of mistakes made in processing - and as long as the solid cuts of meat are not pierced - the bacteria will be confined to the surface of the meat. That is why boiling for 30-60 seconds before grinding will kill the surface bacteria - and make it safe to cook to 145F - medium rare. There is also a way to use chlorine or vinegar to do the same thing - I just have not found the time/concentration figures for these methods.

Remember - we're talking about ground/minced meat where the surface of the meat is mixed into the interior - not a steak where the surface will be heated above the "instant kill" point.

Originally Posted by StirBlue
There is one other thing that you have to take into consideration. Many people make additions to their burger meats like an envelope of dry onion soup mix. ...
This really goes back to what we have said before - 160F for "store bought" ground beef - 145F if you want to take the time and trouble to "sanatize" the surface and grind your own.

But, you DID bring up an interesting point ... people who add an egg as a binder to make burgers ... the "instant kill" temp of salmonella is 165F - you can also achieve the same goal by cooking the meat to 160F and holding it at that temp for a minute or two. Of course, if you use pasturized eggs you don't have to worry about it - and you can cook a burger to 145F without any worry.

The color of the meat, and the color of the juices, is NOT an indication of the temperature or degree of doneness. Meat, and juices, may retain a pink color even when cooked to 160F, especially if the meat contains any sodium nitrites. I'm not going to go look up all the sources - but some dried soup mixes and fresh celery, bell peppers, onions and garlic contain them.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
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Old 02-16-2007, 02:12 PM   #13
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It depends on if you like to gamble. I like beef rare and raw, but would never, ever, ever serve ground meat that way to anyone but ME and occaisionally my husband. There are so many things we ate as kids that are now considered no-nos now. I would never eat ground meat at any restaurant around here if it was rare (in other words, I don't period), only at home where I know who has handled it and where I bought it. And as already said, if it meatloaf or meatballs or something similar, I use my trusty meat thermometer and get them done to whatever the appropriate temperature is (I keep a chart on the inside of the cupboard door next to the stove for that purpose).

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