"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > General Cooking Information > Outdoor Cooking Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-30-2014, 03:19 PM   #101
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South Florida
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadfix View Post
I believe this is what they told you but I don't believe what they told you to be true.
It's even on their web site, although, they're not publicly going to call their grills useless.

Lookin’ Ain’t Cookin’ | Weber.com
__________________

__________________
mborner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 03:34 PM   #102
Master Chef
 
Chief Longwind Of The North's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA,Michigan
Posts: 9,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by mborner View Post
Baking the burger, robbing it of flavor. I don't know how exactly to describe it or the science behind it but searing a burger using intense radiant heat as opposed to baking it (lid close) with convective heat makes all the difference in the world.
I do know the science behind it. Try this at home. Use a propane torch, whose flame is much hotter than the radiant heat from any grill. Fry the burger on one side until browned. Flip it and hit it with the torch, and the point of the blue flame. That's where it is hottest. Cook with the flame until a little smoke appears. Remove the burger when cooked through. Now, take that torch and sear the other side. Taste the burger. It will taste like a pan-fried burger.

The high temperature radiant heat gives you maillard reaction that browns the meat. But you get that from a hot surface too. What you don't get from the hot pan, or the torch flame, is the flavor developed by burning the beef fat. The smoke that is made from burning fat rises with the hot air and deposits smoke particles on the meat. They stick and give you the characteristic fire-grilled flavor. Both sufficient heat to cook and brown the meat, and smoke are required to get that flavor.

If your grill develops enough radiant heat to cooked the meat, and burn the fat to create smoke, you will have a fire-grilled flavor. If either part of that triangle is missing, you won't. I have seen people foil wrap burgers, ribs, chicken, etc., and not understand why their food, cooked on the grill, just doesn't have the grilled flavor they are looking for.

What you did with your grill, was to get it hot enough to both cook the meat, and create enough smoke to flavor it. Add seasonings and you have the perfect burger.

If you were to use a magnifying glass to condense a large enough circle sunlight into heat, and provide beef-fat smoke to waft across the cooking meat, and I dare say you could reproduce that wonderful fire-grilled flavor with no fire at all. Heat is heat, no matter the source. Flavor comes not from the heat, but from other variables that are introduced along with the heat.

Have you ever dried out a piece of meat by boiling it? I have, and made it chewier than a snowmobile's rubber track.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
__________________

__________________
No amount of success outside the home can compensate for failure within the home"

Check out my blog for the friendliest cooking instruction on the net. Go ahead. You know you want to.- http://gwnorthsfamilycookin.wordpress.com/
Chief Longwind Of The North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 03:56 PM   #103
Certified Pretend Chef
 
Andy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 41,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by mborner View Post
Baking the burger, robbing it of flavor. I don't know how exactly to describe it or the science behind it but searing a burger using intense radiant heat as opposed to baking it (lid close) with convective heat makes all the difference in the world.
Along with most of the world, I've been grilling burgers with excellent results for decades with the lid down. They are not baked, they have a nice deeply browned exterior with a little char around the edges and the interior is cooked exactly they way I like it. The fact that you can't accomplish this simply means you have different standards and a different grill.

If cooking burgers on a foil covered grill with the lid open gives you the results you want, you're all set. You can accomplish the same results in a skillet on a stove without the foil.
__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Andy M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 04:27 PM   #104
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South Florida
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
Along with most of the world, I've been grilling burgers with excellent results for decades with the lid down. They are not baked, they have a nice deeply browned exterior with a little char around the edges and the interior is cooked exactly they way I like it. The fact that you can't accomplish this simply means you have different standards and a different grill.

If cooking burgers on a foil covered grill with the lid open gives you the results you want, you're all set. You can accomplish the same results in a skillet on a stove without the foil.
Hi Andy. Thanks. You are right. I certainly am a rare bird. I do have different standards and you may recall me saying that it was a big eye opener for me to discover that most people (I think I said 99.9%) don't know or don't care about missing flavor elements in their burgers. This is not taking anything away from you, I truly appreciate your opinions. I know the problem is me, don't worry. I've always had good burgers on my grill but that's not good enough for me. I want exceptional. I want memorable. I think I found it.
__________________
mborner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 04:28 PM   #105
Master Chef
 
Chief Longwind Of The North's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA,Michigan
Posts: 9,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
Along with most of the world, I've been grilling burgers with excellent results for decades with the lid down. They are not baked, they have a nice deeply browned exterior with a little char around the edges and the interior is cooked exactly they way I like it. The fact that you can't accomplish this simply means you have different standards and a different grill.

If cooking burgers on a foil covered grill with the lid open gives you the results you want, you're all set. You can accomplish the same results in a skillet on a stove without the foil.
I believe he pokes holes in the foil to allow the molten fat to drip onto the heat grates to produce smoke.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
__________________
No amount of success outside the home can compensate for failure within the home"

Check out my blog for the friendliest cooking instruction on the net. Go ahead. You know you want to.- http://gwnorthsfamilycookin.wordpress.com/
Chief Longwind Of The North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 05:14 PM   #106
Master Chef
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Park Drive Bar/Grill Los Angeles
Posts: 9,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by mborner View Post
It's even on their web site, although, they're not publicly going to call their grills useless.

Lookin€™ Ain€™t Cookin€™ | Weber.com

You're right, I read their thing about keeping the lid closed. But you should still be able to get a good sear with the lid open like any other gasser out there. They even mention that closing the lid prevents flare ups.

And after reading that paragraph on flare ups I'm pretty sure their legal department had something to do with it. They want the lid closed on everything that's being cooked.
__________________
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 06:37 PM   #107
Wine Guy
 
Steve Kroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posts: 5,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by mborner View Post
It's even on their web site, although, they're not publicly going to call their grills useless.
I'm going to have to beg to differ.

With the exception of the searing station, I have the same exact grill with the same BTUs, to the best of my knowledge. I made burgers on it just last night, lid up. Not only did I NOT use the searing station, but I also only used two of the three standard burners, and those were turned down part of the way. And yet it was still was plenty hot. So hot, in fact, that it was difficult to reach to the back to flip those burgers without feeling the heat on my arm.

So I don't buy the whole thing about having to have the lid down. And I certainly wouldn't consider my grill "useless," by any means.
__________________
Steve Kroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:00 AM   #108
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South Florida
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kroll View Post
I'm going to have to beg to differ.

With the exception of the searing station, I have the same exact grill with the same BTUs, to the best of my knowledge. I made burgers on it just last night, lid up. Not only did I NOT use the searing station, but I also only used two of the three standard burners, and those were turned down part of the way. And yet it was still was plenty hot. So hot, in fact, that it was difficult to reach to the back to flip those burgers without feeling the heat on my arm.

So I don't buy the whole thing about having to have the lid down. And I certainly wouldn't consider my grill "useless," by any means.
Perhaps there is something wrong with my Genesis, and my last grill, and my parents Siver C, I don't know.

As mentioned before, I went around and around with the possibility of my grill not working properly. The first thing Weber asked me to do was to turn off the gas at the tank. They then asked me to turn on all the control knobs on the BBQ and then turn them off. (lid open, of course) Wait 5 minutes, then slowly turn the gas on at the tank to full. Start the grill. No change in heat.
They also had me take out the burners (PITA) and check the orifice tubes for debris. I have tiny screens covering them. Cleaned the screens and made sure that none of the orifice tubes were blocked and that every hole in the burner tube was clear.
No change.
Weber then asked me to send them a picture of all three burners turned on high. This is the picture I sent them;



She said, "I'm sorry, your grill is working perfectly, there's nothing we can do" She practically scolded me for even trying to cook with the lid up.

With that, just as you have doubts about what I'm telling you, I find it very difficult to believe that you can actually sear on your grill with the lid up using just two burners turned down because it gets "plenty hot". Unless your grill his highly modified in some way, I just don't believe it.
__________________
mborner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:23 AM   #109
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South Florida
Posts: 36
Steve, I was just thinking of something else. Is your Genesis an "E" or an "S" model? I was just wondering because the E model has porcelain enameled iron flavorizer bars while the S has stainless steel bars. I know stainless is horrible at radiating heat and I'm wondering if that could be the difference between our grills.
__________________
mborner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 10:44 AM   #110
Master Chef
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Park Drive Bar/Grill Los Angeles
Posts: 9,632
I belong to TVWBB also and have been following your thread there as well. I'm curious to see what other S310 users there have to say about the lid.
__________________

__________________
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Discuss Cooking on Facebook

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.