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Old 10-06-2007, 12:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by keltin View Post
Again, nothing personal, but misinformation is a very bad thing.
Sigh. You probably out to be a little less defensive and perhaps be a little more open minded. It will probably get you further.

What you wrote in your previous post is mostly correct and you basically agreed with me if I read it right. Here are a couple of facts for you though:

Coefficient of thermal conductivity:

Air: .025
Liquid Water: .6 (24x that of air)
Steam: .024

Specific Heat Capacity:

Air: 1
Water: 4
Steam: 2 (double that of air).

Ever cooked anything in a gas oven vs. electric? Ever notice a difference?

Do you know what effect increased humidity has on air density?

Ever steam vegatables? Come out any different as opposed to boiled or roasted at 200o?

To summarize, you can certainly get excellent results using any kind of smoker. To say that technically you shouldn't be able to tell the difference is just plain silly. Set aside your ego for a few minutes and pick up some useful advice.
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:14 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by beerco View Post
Hmmm..

Smoke Ring in Barbeque Meats

"When a smoke ring develops in barbecue meats it is not because smoke has penetrated and colored the muscle, but rather because gases in the smoke interact with the pigment myoglobin. "

THE SMOKE RING (although he looks like he's got some facts wrong).

Myth of the Smoke Ring - Barebecue and Grilling - Zimbio

"This is because it has nothing to do with taste or quality of smoke. It is no more then just a chemical reaction between nitrates and the food. Basically what happens when you are smoking with a traditional smoker, with wood and/or charcoal, you are producing a lot more nitrates then you do with an electric smoker,"

etc. etc. etc. just google it you'll find dozens of sites consistent with the facts.

I didn't say it was impossible to get a smoke ring with an electric smoker. I said: "Many electric users can't make a smoke ring unless they throw a little charcoal in there". I would say that given enough wood chips in there you may get one as well but would probably have an over-smoked BBQ. One of the articles states that gassers are o.k. at rings too.

BTW, putting food on cold helps with the ring too.

Oh, and please stop missinforming the interent
You've done nothing but re-iterate what I said. It is a chemical reaction between the smoke and the meat. This happens in ANY smoker. As I said, with charcoal, there is MORE smoke because of the fuel source, and if you failed at a smoke ring in an electric smoker, its because you didn't add enough wood. Your point?
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:18 PM   #13
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Your point?
The point is that there are certainly differences in how the food comes out of electric, gas and charcoal smokers contrary to your statement:

Originally Posted by keltin
Technically, you shouldn't be able to tell a difference between a charcoal smoker and an electric smoker, especially if you only add pre-lit coals to your fire.


My guests and I can certainly see and taste the difference. Again, not necessarily that one is worse than the other, but they are certainly different.
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerco View Post
Sigh. You probably out to be a little less defensive and perhaps be a little more open minded. It will probably get you further.

What you wrote in your previous post is mostly correct and you basically agreed with me if I read it right. Here are a couple of facts for you though:

Coefficient of thermal conductivity:

Air: .025
Liquid Water: .6 (24x that of air)
Steam: .024

Specific Heat Capacity:

Air: 1
Water: 4
Steam: 2 (double that of air).

Ever cooked anything in a gas oven vs. electric? Ever notice a difference?

Do you know what effect increased humidity has on air density?

Ever steam vegatables? Come out any different as opposed to boiled or roasted at 200o?

To summarize, you can certainly get excellent results using any kind of smoker. To say that technically you shouldn't be able to tell the difference is just plain silly. Set aside your ego for a few minutes and pick up some useful advice.
Again, you re-iterate what I said by showing the coefficients for steam and air are identical. And again you are trying to compare apples to oranges. There is no difference in cooking in gas oven and an electric oven. Both use dry heat.

As I said, water is more conductive, but a water smoker is NOT a steamer, and it does not submerge the meat in water. The primary transfer of heat is air. Iím not sure what your point is, other than you seem a bit confused?

And EGO has nothing to do with it. Your short, terse, and misinformed ďFalseĒ replies to my posts have colored my responses, but nothing more.
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerco View Post
The point is that there are certainly differences in how the food comes out of electric, gas and charcoal smokers contrary to your statement:

Originally Posted by keltin
Technically, you shouldn't be able to tell a difference between a charcoal smoker and an electric smoker, especially if you only add pre-lit coals to your fire.


My guests and I can certainly see and taste the difference. Again, not necessarily that one is worse than the other, but they are certainly different.
If you know how to use an electric smoker, there is no difference. It appears you didnít know how to use it and didnít use enough smoke. An electric smoker has the exact same environment as a charcoal smokerÖ.heat, water pan, wood smoke. The ONLY difference is that you can add un-lit charcoal which will increase the amount of smokeÖ..and bad smoke at that.
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:28 PM   #16
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There is no difference in cooking in gas oven and an electric oven. Both use dry heat.
Hmmm.. did you know that a significant components of natural gas combustion is water? The devil is in the details my friend.

In a lot of cases it's difficult to tell the difference between the two ovens but it is certainly there. That's one of the reasons for the popularity of the dual fuel ranges these days.

Electric is a true dry heat, gas is pretty dry but there's enough water in there to affect how some foods come out.
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:33 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by beerco View Post
Hmmm.. did you know that a significant components of natural gas combustion is water? The devil is in the details my friend.

In a lot of cases it's difficult to tell the difference between the two ovens but it is certainly there. That's one of the reasons for the popularity of the dual fuel ranges these days.

Electric is a true dry heat, gas is pretty dry but there's enough water in there to affect how some foods come out.
Your argument is purely subjective. You can say that you can tell a difference and that it tastes different all day long. Just as I can say that JalapeŮos arenít hotÖÖ.but some people do consider them hot. Thatís the beauty of subjection.

Get a hygrometer, set your gas oven to 400 and take a reading. Do the same with an electric oven and report back your amazing and objective results.
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:36 PM   #18
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If you know how to use an electric smoker, there is no difference. It appears you didnít know how to use it and didnít use enough smoke. An electric smoker has the exact same environment as a charcoal smokerÖ.heat, water pan, wood smoke. The ONLY difference is that you can add un-lit charcoal which will increase the amount of smokeÖ..and bad smoke at that.
Well, I suppose you're right. I must only "half know" this subject unlike yourself. I have to resort to citing sources to back up my points...anyway.

Just out of curiosity. what's your ratio of BBQ done on electric vs. BBQ done on charcoal. i.e. how many electric smokes have you done compared to charcoal?

I ask only because I switched to charcoal after about 4 years of electric and feel it was totally worth it...guess I didn't know what I was doing.
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:41 PM   #19
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.

Get a hygrometer, set your gas oven to 400 and take a reading. Do the same with an electric oven and report back your amazing and objective results.
Oh jeez, ever hear of google? how about Gas oven vs electric oven just search on moisture. Yes there's debate but the fact is that a gas oven produces lots of water.

Sheesh, you seem pretty normal on the other threads where I've read your stuff.
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerco View Post
Well, I suppose you're right. I must only "half know" this subject unlike yourself. I have to resort to citing sources to back up my points...anyway.

Just out of curiosity. what's your ratio of BBQ done on electric vs. BBQ done on charcoal. i.e. how many electric smokes have you done compared to charcoal?

I ask only because I switched to charcoal after about 4 years of electric and feel it was totally worth it...guess I didn't know what I was doing.
The "sources" you cited concur with what I said about the smoke ring being a chemical reaction between the wood smoke and the meat. This can be done in an electric smoker.

I donít have an electric smoker, but most of my relatives and neighbors do. Their meats come out the same as mine. Tender, juicy, nice smoke ring, good flavor. If you know what youíre doing, they are the same.

Iíve been smoking with charcoal smokers for over 17 years, and I know you can easily ruin a batch of meat by mis-using charcoalÖ..something that doesnítí happen in an electric smoker.

Iíve also done many cuts of meat in the oven set to 225. Same principle as an electric smoker but no smoke. And the only difference in the meat is the smoke ring and smokey flavor.
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