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Old 10-20-2008, 08:29 PM   #11
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wow, that sounds perfectly logical, my last pulled pork came out way too smokey, this seems like a great option, and i don't have to fire up the smoker all day, im gona try it this weekend, do you use any finishing sauce or q sauce for it?
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:51 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North View Post
The smoke doesn't require the usual osmosis process to penetrate the meat. And the whole of the meat develops that beautiful redish-brown hue, like a smoke ring, but all over.
What is the usual osmosis process to penetrate the meat? Never have heard of this?

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Old 10-21-2008, 05:16 PM   #13
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Osmosis is the natural mechanism by which greater concentrations of gas, liquid, or in this case, flavor molecules move from a greater concentration to a lesser concentration until equal distribution is achieved throughout an environment. For instance, if you place a chunk of meat into a brine solution, the water content of the individual muscle cells has less salt salt in it than does the brine solution. The difference in salinity is called osmotic pressure. The dissolved salt will migrate into the meat cells until an equal amount of salt is distributed through all of the water, both inside the meat tissue, and in the brine solution.

Another, maybe more clear example is explained with perfume. When you open a bottle of perfume in a room, there is a great concentration of the aromatic oils in the bottle, while none exists in the outer air. If left for a short time in the open position, the aroma of perfume will begin to distribute itself throughout the room, even if there are no air currents. Again, this is due to osmotic pressure, or by definition, the property that all things in nature seek to be equal.

In smoking meat, there are aromatic oils contained in the smoke. These are free to saturate the meat tissue unless some barrier exists to stop them. That is how the smoke flavor penetrates the meat, because of osmotic pressure. Hope that helps clear things up. I'm sure my good freind YT could explain it a bit better.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:40 PM   #14
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Osmosis:
Osmosis is the spontaneous net movement of water across a semipermeable membrane from a region of low solute concentration to a solution with a high solute concentration, up a solute concentration gradient.

Diffusion:
Diffusion is a spontaneous movement of particles from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration.

I can see diffusion happening but not osmosis. Smoke is particles in the envionment that can be layed on the meat but not osmosis into the meat.
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:56 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by jminion View Post
Osmosis:
Osmosis is the spontaneous net movement of water across a semipermeable membrane from a region of low solute concentration to a solution with a high solute concentration, up a solute concentration gradient.

Diffusion:
Diffusion is a spontaneous movement of particles from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration.

I can see diffusion happening but not osmosis. Smoke is particles in the envionment that can be layed on the meat but not osmosis into the meat.
Ahh. But doesn't moisture that accumulates on the meat surface while cooking dissolve and then carry some of that smoky flavor into the meat. If not, then how does that flavor get into the center of a Virginia Smoked Ham? There must be a mechanism to transfer the molecules responsible for the smokey flavor into the meat. And though I may have gotten the definitions of osmosis and diffusion a little mixed (Ok, completely mixed up), I still believe that osmotic pressure is the mechanism by which smoke flavor infuses the meat. Though I don't have any scientific evidence to back me up on this one. This is simply a hypothesis. And have to ask forgiveness for my sometimes inaccurate scientific jargon. It's been a good while since physics class for me, many, many years. Still, the idea, I think, is valid.

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Old 10-22-2008, 12:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North View Post
Ahh. But doesn't moisture that accumulates on the meat surface while cooking dissolve and then carry some of that smoky flavor into the meat. If not, then how does that flavor get into the center of a Virginia Smoked Ham? There must be a mechanism to transfer the molecules responsible for the smokey flavor into the meat. And though I may have gotten the definitions of osmosis and diffusion a little mixed (Ok, completely mixed up), I still believe that osmotic pressure is the mechanism by which smoke flavor infuses the meat. Though I don't have any scientific evidence to back me up on this one. This is simply a hypothesis. And have to ask forgiveness for my sometimes inaccurate scientific jargon. It's been a good while since physics class for me, many, many years. Still, the idea, I think, is valid.

Seeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
If you are equating the pink color to smoke penetration in ham that is different functions, the color is caused by the curing which is an osmosis reaction. Smoke penetration in preservation of meats is done at low temps and takes days. The meat needs to be low in water content, water actually inhibites smoke curing.
There are artifical means or quick smoking, the meat is dipped into a mixture of pyroligneous acid, water, and juniper oil. Either way osmosis doesn't explain smoke penetration and our cooking methods don't explain how we can achieve smoke penetration.
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:36 PM   #17
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Actually, I'm not so much speaking of the pink color (which in processed meats comes from staining caused by the use of sodium nitrites/nitrates), as the smokey flavor that permeates, say, a smoked pork roast, or smoked turkey. I am fully aware that it is the deposition of smoke particles on meat surface that creates the grilled flavor of a good steak. In fact, I did some experimentation to determine whether it was high heat and charring that created the flavor, or smoke deposition. I pan-fried a steak,and then hit it with a propane torch to induce the high-heat charred flavor as erroneously proposed by several cookbook authors. I found that intense heat did nothing to develop the classic "char-broiled" or grilled flavor of grilled meats, but rather that smoke deposition from burning fats created the flavor. In fact, I cooked very lean beef on the covered grill and did not get the classic flavor. I then added extraeous fat to the grill and cooked another very lean chunk of beef and got the flavor, pretty much proving my hypothesis.

Regardless of the side topic on which I just expounded, smoke particle deposition does not explain the permeating flavor in a cold-smoke piece of meat, be it red meat, poultry, or fish. There is some other mechanism by which the flavor becomes distributed throughout the meat. It is my hypothesis that aromatic oils from the smoke distribute themselves through the meat tissue, and due to the nature of oils, it takes much time for this to happen, hence the long cooking time requirements for the process. Again, this is speculation on my part.

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Old 10-25-2008, 02:29 AM   #18
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Great hypothesis ranks with cooking brisket fat side up so the rendering fat will keep the brisket moist.
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Old 10-25-2008, 08:51 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North View Post
So here's my very own method for making a perfectly smoked pulled pork, with limited bbq time.


Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
omg, uncle bob must be turning over in his woodpile!

j/k, gw. another one for the "try someday" file. thanks.
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