"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > General Cooking Information > Outdoor Cooking Forum > BBQ & Smokin' Meats
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-13-2005, 03:59 AM   #21
Senior Cook
 
lutzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle/Edmonds
Posts: 177
A great source of BBQ information can be found here: http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/
Their updated FAQ #2 can be found here: http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/
The section pertaining to ribs: http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/10-1.html#10.1.1

Specifically:
Quote:
"Most racks of ribs of 3 pounds and under will be done in approximately 3.5 to 4 hours at 200 to 225F. If the ribs are extra plump and thick it can help to bump the temperature to 250F. Baby backs will take 30 to 45 minutes less. In any case, the ribs are done when the meat is tender and will easily pull away from the bone. When they reach that point, take them out immediately."
I'd be a bit "skeptical" of the information provided in the two sites HanArt references. Among other things, they recommend cooking to "a temperature of 155 degrees"...

Since collagen (connective tissues) doesn't begin breaking down until between 160 and 170 degrees... these site recommendations don't even call for cooking to a temperature to begin this process. Of course you'll need a knife to separate the ribs.... and a good pair of teeth and strong jaws to chew the meat with too .

Perhaps the ahhh hummmm searching for the best word to use here... ah, the "confusion" (that's it.. confusion) here comes from different definitions of "tender"?

To some that must mean they can cut them with a sharp knife? And to others (including me) it means I can loosen and perhaps pull the bone out with my fingers, and break the ribs apart by bending them...

It's all "relative" I guess.
__________________

__________________
"Never order chicken-fried steak in a cafe that doesn't have a jukebox."
lutzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 12:26 PM   #22
 
HanArt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 272
All I can say is that it works, the meat is still tender and moist, and no knife is needed.

"It was once thought that pork must be cooked to an internal temperature of 185F to ensure that trichinella spiralis parasite would be killed. It is now known that trichinella spiralis is eliminated at 137F, however, it is still recommended that pork be cooked to an internal temperature of 155F to 160F so it is safe to eat. Cooking the pork to a temperature of 185F will produce tough, dry meat."

http://www.hormel.com/templates/know...emid=32&id=444
__________________

__________________
HanArt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 01:35 PM   #23
Senior Cook
 
lutzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle/Edmonds
Posts: 177
Quote:
"... Cooking the pork to a temperature of 185F will produce tough, dry meat."
I'm beginning to think we're talking about two different "things" here (for want of a more scientific term), e.g. "cooking pork" and "barbecuing pork". And I surely hate to disagree with a big company like Hormel, but I suspect there are 10's of THOUSANDS of BBQ'ers (both back yard and competition type cooks) who "Q" pork shoulder/aka butt and ribs.. who will substantially disagree with that statement IF it's unqualified.

The issue isn't to what temperature pork needs to be cooked to ensure safety.. I cook my pork loins to about 145 degrees or so, then let the residual heat carry it up another 5 or more degrees... but I'm cooking at 375 in my oven.. I have done a pork loin on the Weber 22" kettle too... with the bottom vent fully open and using a chimney of charcoal offset (same as for cooking a turkey or a chicken.. although a turkey takes a bit more charcoal).. the grill temp is about 325-350.. BTW that's a great way to cook a turkey. But you must take it off at about 150 as Hormel mentions.

I suspect Hormel's statement is true IF ribs are cooked at a grill temp over about 275 degrees... it takes a long time for the collagen to break down.. the internal meet temp will "hang" at about 165 degrees for an hour or two while the collagen converts... then it will rise again... typically a pork butt for "pulling" needs to be cooked to 195 or so... and it's NOT dry.

But if ya kicks the temp up much over 275 degrees, the meat dries out before the collagen breaks down and no matter how long you cook them, or to what internal temp... they get tough. and stay tough. So probably Hormel and I are both right, in a manner of speaking.

Here's 8 racks of ribs I did a couple years ago.. as I recall they took about 5 hours or more at about 225-250 degrees in a WSM smoker... I didn't take their temp but I guarantee they were cooked to a temp well over 155 degrees... probably closer to 190.. and I also guarantee they were "tender" and "not dry"...
__________________
"Never order chicken-fried steak in a cafe that doesn't have a jukebox."
lutzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 01:37 PM   #24
Cook
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: jus' down da bayou cher!!
Posts: 57
The problem with most gas grills is that you can't cook slow enough without turning your grill on and off. What I do when slow cooking ribs and anything else that needs a few hours at a low temp, on MY GRILL..........yours may, and probably does, cook differently. What I have to do is heat my grill up to a fairly higher temp than what I want it to cook at and then set to low and throw the meat on. For ribs I will probably keep the fire on low for about 40 minutes, then start an on off cycle for the rest of the cooking (couple or few hours). 15 on, 15 off and I just monitor the meat to see if that is cooking at the speed that I hoped for or I may need to alter my on off times a little.



I learned to grill that way while trying to get a wild turkey breast cooked on the grill and still have it dripping with juice. It worked and still works for me.


BUT, if you are in a hurry there is absolutely nothing wrong with boiling ribs then throwing them on the grill, other than cooking purists giving you a hard time. 98% of the people you feed with your ribs would never know it either, if you didn't tell them so.
__________________
cantcook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 02:02 PM   #25
Senior Cook
 
lutzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle/Edmonds
Posts: 177
can'tcook... I had a Weber gasser for awhile... gave it to my son 'cause it wouldn't get hot enough to sear my steaks (I want 700+ degrees grill temp).. and I had the same "low heat" problem you mention.

It was a three burner Weber, can't recall the model right now, but by turning two burners off and the other one as low as it would go.. I kinda solved the heat problem by taking a small chip of wood and proping the lid up 1/2" or so... I think I experimented with how far to prop it open...

Anyway, that way I could slow cook at 275 grill temp.. you lose some smoke that way, but meat won't absorb smoke after internal temp of about 140 degrees anyway.. so I just added some more chips to my foil packet to compensate.. and I seldom use much smoke for ribs anyway...

Someone on this forum, or the other one I post too.. darn if I can recall now.. claimed they could get their Weber gasser down to about 250.. I never could. Perhap my gas jets were hotter or something....

I really recommend you have both.. a charcoal WSM (or the less expensive equivalent if you want to fuss with things a lot)... that's Weber Smokey Mountain btw...

Amazon has them on sale now and then, at about $179 and sometimes has a $25 off purchases of $125 or coupon special... and free shipping... money well spent IF you want a very easy to use, successful BBQ setup. The less expensive Brinkman types require a lot more skill and fuss... the Weber is "idiot proof".. that's why I got mine
__________________
"Never order chicken-fried steak in a cafe that doesn't have a jukebox."
lutzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 02:36 PM   #26
Head Chef
 
htc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA,Oregon
Posts: 1,302
You know, I NEVER KNEW YOU COULD COOK RIBS with the capsule looking smoker! My Dad has one!!!!!!!!!! Needless to say I've already called him to borrow it. I am picking it up this weekend. I guess it didn't register with me because when we were kids, my Dad tried to smoke some salmon in it and it didn't taste like the stuff you get at the store, so we never really tried much else (at least that I remember). Funny he never used it for ribs.

I'm so excited!!! Now I just have to pick up some ribs and read up on how to use those darn things. I've never used it, but have a feeling that it's going to stay in my little patio for a while. :-)

I don't know what brand it is or model, but I remember it looks like one similar to the one Lutzz used (I think).
__________________
htc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 03:06 PM   #27
Senior Cook
 
lutzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle/Edmonds
Posts: 177
can'tcook... sorry to post and run on and off here... I'm at home "kinda" working too, and have some people dropping in and out for interviews (?airre thing).

Anyway, I just re-read your last post.. about "boiling ribs in water".. I was gonna recommend, rather than making pork broth.. you consider some alternatives if you're in a "hurry".. the best of the evils would be to toss them in a pressure cooker, on a rack, with 1 cup of water.. and cook for 15 minutes @ 15lbs... they might still be a bit tough but should still be on the bone... but you won't have as much flavor loss as boiling them in water.

Another alternative, not as fast as the pressure cooker, is to bake them in the oven for? (HELP,, I know someone here has done this,, I don't know the temp or times).. then finish on the gas or charcoal grill, baste with whatever sauce you have, etc.

Many chinese/asian recipes call for steaming their ribs first,, they typically deep fry them after... (they do the same with chicken... steam about 10 minutes, then deep fry TWICE to make them crisp .. like twice deep fried french fries)... I don't know the times for steaming either... I'm sure there are some recipes on the net.. google Chinese ribs, etc...

The LAST thing I would do is boil them in water... but this is just IMHO.. cause if you taste the water after you've boiled them.. it makes a pretty good pork broth for a soup, etc... but I don't doubt your guests won't know... my guests had no clue how badly I was destroying my ribs back in the "ol days" when I used to boil mine.. but I then switched to a pressure cooker... and later got into true "Q".

HTC... you don't NEED a Weber WSM smoker... for years I smoked on a couple of Brinkman smokers... there was another model I used too... again, memory fades... but the thing about them is, they aren't as "air tight" as the WSM and require a lot more watching and monitoring of your fire... and the grill temp... etc... but you can do some excellent "Q" on them too.

Just get another six pack and have it cooling with you... 'cause you'll be sitting outside a lot more than if you were using a WSM.. the WSM is mostly "set it and forget it" ala that rotisserie commercial

I used a Polder probe thermometer like Alton Brown uses on his shows.. about $24.95 or less as I recall, stick the probe into a potato with the tip sticking out.. be careful the wire & probe doesn't touch anything over about 400 degrees or it will burn out... and you can check your temp. I now use one of those remote Maverick thermometers (measures two temps but I only monitor my grill temp usually) ,, good for up to 100 feet away IF you have a pretty good straight line... but 50 feet anyway.

If you're just starting out, I suggest Kingsford briquettes over lump 'cause lump burns hotter, faster, and will take more figuring out how to control.. but later I recommend using lump.

Read that BBQ FAQ I posted above in a prior thread too... take awhile but a TON of valuable info in there... feel free to PM me if you have any questions... perhaps you can benefit from my prior "screw ups"
__________________
"Never order chicken-fried steak in a cafe that doesn't have a jukebox."
lutzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 08:04 PM   #28
Head Chef
 
htc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA,Oregon
Posts: 1,302
The smoker I borrowed doesn't look like yours afterall...it's a metal box. I must have seen the bullet at the store somewhere and wanted one...oh well, wishful thinking...
__________________
htc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 08:51 AM   #29
Executive Chef
 
Raine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 3,549
Anyone who has eaten ribs cooked on a smoker will be able to tell if you boiled ribs.
__________________
Raine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005, 03:03 AM   #30
Cook
 
Chef Wil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Washington California
Posts: 62
Send a message via MSN to Chef Wil Send a message via Yahoo to Chef Wil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainee
Anyone who has eaten ribs cooked on a smoker will be able to tell if you boiled ribs.
I'll second that opinion Raniee, I can tell boiled ribs regardless of how they are finished, weak and watery tasting.
__________________

__________________
I learned early in life that a job in the kitchen meant food in the belly
Chef Wil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Discuss Cooking on Facebook

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.