Question about smoking temperature (safety related)

[outRIAAge]

You might want to read this, which I posted earlier: Smoking meat

A well-written piece, but not that far away from what I do. For pulled pork, I start with the Bradley recipe, which calls for 210F smoker-internal temperature and a 6-hour smoke. I drop the temp down to ~190F to get a longer smoke, and the smoker turns off when meat-internal temp is 160F.

I'm not too worried, but I wonder if the recipe would be ruined by first pasteurizing the pork?

 

[outRIAAge]

Shameless shilling for the Bradley Smoker

The Canadian Bradley is a very good smoker. It feeds a fresh hockey-puck of compressed sawdust onto the smoking element every 20 minutes, dousing the old ones in water and keeping the smoke very fresh. Pucks come in all the usual woods, but sometimes they add a limited edition of whisky- or wine-barrel pucks.

They sell a fancy computer-controlled version, but best to skip that and get the original, and add the Auber Bradley controller. It's a royal pain to program, but allows infinite control of temperature and smoke. You can program up to a 99-hour smoke where all you have to do is occasionally clean out the water bath and stack up some more pucks. (It'll also turn a standard slow cooker into a ~1F sous vide machine.)

Bradley also sells just their smoke generator, which allows you to turn an old fridge or whatever into an excellent smoker for less than $200.

They also sell an excellent cold-smoking adapter, which keeps smoker-internal temperature to ~15F above ambient. Highly recommended.

 

[Caslon]

Baby back ribs are available where I live, as well as other types of ribs. I've even seen cross-cut Korean-style ribs.

Guide to ribs. They're called baby back ribs because they're smaller and shorter than the other ribs.
http://www.chowstatic.com/blog-media/2015/05/Meat-Cuts-Illustration.jpg

The 3 big chain supermarkets here...Albertson's, Vons, and Ralph's all sell only Farmer John uncooked pork loin ribs. And they're never anywhere near baby back sized. It's as if they have a monopoly in these parts, or something. The butcher counter pretty much just opens a pack of those to put behind the counter glass, the rest are in a refrigerated square tub out on the aisle.

 

[Rocklobster]

I've never seen any posts about smoking where they use any less than about 220° F. Even on the smoking forum (smokingmeatforums.com) I've never seen anyone use lower than that. I'd call it a bit of a risk.

This is what I am talking about. The mini chief smoker I have doesn't get that hot. Furthermore, this would leave me to wonder how they can safely sell a food preparation appliance that will not heat meat to an acceptable temperature.
Although, internal temp of pork is recommended at 160 and this unit gets up to 165, so technically, if left in there long enough, the meat should become adequately cooked. Surely the department of health must have approved of this smoker because of this factor...I don't get it...

I'm going to use it again today and am going to smoke some pork chops and shrink wrap them for future use...let's hope it works....

 

[GotGarlic]

Although, internal temp of pork is recommended at 160 and this unit gets up to 165, so technically, if left in there long enough, the meat should become adequately cooked. Surely the department of health must have approved of this smoker because of this factor...I don't get it...

The USDA in 2011 updated their guidelines for doneness of pork to 145°F. Trichinellosis is extremely rare in the United States these days.

https://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/mintemp.html

 

[Rocklobster]

The USDA in 2011 updated their guidelines for doneness of pork to 145°F. Trichinellosis is extremely rare in the United States these days.

https://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/mintemp.html

Yeah. Even better...large scale commercial farming took care of that....one good thing about it, I guess....

 

[RPCookin]

This is what I am talking about. The mini chief smoker I have doesn't get that hot. Furthermore, this would leave me to wonder how they can safely sell a food preparation appliance that will not heat meat to an acceptable temperature.
Although, internal temp of pork is recommended at 160 and this unit gets up to 165, so technically, if left in there long enough, the meat should become adequately cooked. Surely the department of health must have approved of this smoker because of this factor...I don't get it...

I'm going to use it again today and am going to smoke some pork chops and shrink wrap them for future use...let's hope it works....

I think that for me part of the issue with such a low maximum temperature is that one facet of smoking many meats is the crust or bark that you get. When the unit only reaches 165, I doubt that you would get much, if any, bark.

 

[Rocklobster]

I think that for me part of the issue with such a low maximum temperature is that one facet of smoking many meats is the crust or bark that you get. When the unit only reaches 165, I doubt that you would get much, if any, bark.

I've been using it for the 3-2-1 method. It worked fine the first time. I have ribs on it now. I'll post a pic when the 3 hours is up....

 

[Andy M.]

IMO, the issue with smoking at such low temps means the meats are in the temperature danger zone for too long. I wouldn't consider smoking at temps below 200ºF.

 

[Rocklobster]

IMO, the issue with smoking at such low temps means the meats are in the temperature danger zone for too long. I wouldn't consider smoking at temps below 200ºF.

I'm wondering this myself but how could they sell a product that would not be safe to use?https://www.smokehouseproducts.com/products/mini-chief-electric-smoker?variant=4957365891

 

[Andy M.]

I'm wondering this myself but how could they sell a product that would not be safe to use?https://www.smokehouseproducts.com/products/mini-chief-electric-smoker?variant=4957365891

No idea, roch. I'd recommend smoking your meat on it for two hours then moving it to a grill or oven to finish cooking at 225ºF-250ºF.

 

[Rocklobster]

No idea, roch. I'd recommend smoking your meat on it for two hours then moving it to a grill or oven to finish cooking at 225ºF-250ºF.

Sure. That's what I am going to do. It worked fine last time, but this whole thing has gotten me puzzled some what. It doesn't take much to confuse me...

 

[CraigC]

I'm wondering this myself but how could they sell a product that would not be safe to use?https://www.smokehouseproducts.com/products/mini-chief-electric-smoker?variant=4957365891

Rock, I really think this unit is more of a cold smoker/dehydrator. What they state it can be used for, I would have my doubts about, such as the steak, ham and pork. I notice they mention turkey, but no other fowl. Personally, I would never cook/smoke any fowl with this.

 

[Rocklobster]

Rock, I really think this unit is more of a cold smoker/dehydrator. What they state it can be used for, I would have my doubts about, such as the steak, ham and pork. I notice they mention turkey, but no other fowl. Personally, I would never cook/smoke any fowl with this.

I did ribs and boneless chops last night. Both for about two hours, then transferred them to the gas grill for finishing.one thing I did notice is they were still very raw after 2 hours, but well smoked. They turned out fine, and all four of us who ate are still alive...I have a few other units I can smoke meat with but I like to play around with stuff so I wanted to see how this thing works. You are right, though, I'll save the chicken for the charcoal bbq...

 

[Andy M.]

I read somewhere that after two hours of smoke, the meat can't take on any more so there is no gain in flavor after two hours.

 

[RPCookin]

I read somewhere that after two hours of smoke, the meat can't take on any more so there is no gain in flavor after two hours.

I've even read reports that it's less than that. Oversmoking can also make the meat taste bitter.

 

[GotGarlic]

We have a friend who always over-smokes his chicken. They seem to like it, but I can't stand it.

 

[Markf]

Smokers like the "Chief" series are for drying fish and meat (jerky) that has been brined or marinated. I know people that have smoked ribs in the chief for an hour or so then onto the grill at 250f to cook. This is and old trick used by people with gas grills.

Smoking something like a brisket or pork shoulder needs temperatures above 200F. When I smoke a pork shoulder in my smoker, it will get to 140 fairly quickly, 2 1/2 hours of so. The long time comes from getting the meat through the stall and up to 185 plus at which time the collagens in the meat have broken down and it becomes very tender.


Mark

 

[CraigC]

I've even read reports that it's less than that. Oversmoking can also make the meat taste bitter.

How long meat will take on smoke is related to the actual smoker temperature, i.e. 225F will take on smoke longer than 300F. How can you "oversmoke" when the meat has taken on as much smoke as it can? That would mean that meat, like pork shoulder, whole hog and whole packer brisket cooked for 10+ hours with wood smoke will come out bitter. If that were the case, no one would be eating at all the "Q" joints that prepare their meat with wood smoke. Now if you use green wood or soaked wood, I can understand the bitter, acrid taste. Some woods, like mesquite, produce an off putting flavor, IMO, when used for low and slow. I like the mesquite flavor for high temperature grilling, but unless mixed, in small amounts, with post oak or other woods, it can be over powering in long cooks.

 

[mozart]

IMO, the issue with smoking at such low temps means the meats are in the temperature danger zone for too long. I wouldn't consider smoking at temps below 200ºF.

This threat would have been better moved to the food safety forum.

Folks seem perfectly comfortable smoking a 10lb pork butt for 20 hours where the internal temp is in danger zone for many, many more than 4 hours. Why is this considered safe at 225-250 grill temp?

Ok, trick question; The reason is because the inside of meat be it pork, beef or chicken does not contain pathogenic bacteria naturally. Food poisoning bacteria are not found in the blood stream but in the digestive system. Meanwhile, the outside of the meat can be very contaminated, particularly poultry because of processing contamination. But this bacteria is killed very quickly, even in a 165 smoker.

Toxins? Very rare in properly cooked food that is eaten after it is cooked. Toxins occur in food that is improperly stored after it is cooked in most cases and to some extent before cooking if improperly stored. The only toxin involved in a situation like smoking would be staph toxin. While staph toxin is heat stable at boiling temps, I doubt it can withstand the amount of heat that occurs when you get a char on a roast.

One mistake that has a potential to be an issue in low and slow cooking is contaminating the interior of the meat and then not having the temp get out of the danger zone for many hours. This is often done by shoving a 4 inch remote thermometer probe into the roast when it is first placed on the grill. This will push any pathogens on the outside of the meat into the roast. Better to wait a couple of hours to insert the thermometer.