Short Crust Pastry advice

[millicent]

Its a simple thing to make, but for me its downright impossible. I have tried many times and have given up.
Ive even asked our local baker to make me a batch and he did. I took it home,rolled it out, used it and baked it..............it came out awful.
Ive used frozen pastry, still no luck.

I would love to make pastry as i could make so many pastry related dishes.

so is it cos my hands are always hot? I tried the no touch method, no luck there.
Am i doomed to be a non pastry maker?
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find out why.
This message wont self destruct in 20 seconds

 

[jennyema]

In order to tell you why, you need to tell us how you make it now and what is wrong about it

 

[lulu]

Hot hands don't help! I think the main problem is often over working the pastry. I often find lightly pressing pastry, with my perfect for pasty cold hands, lol, into a dish for a base rather thal rolling it works better, and a rolled top is ever so lightly rolled. The shape it rests in in the fridge can help this. And fat. I like butter, and I have used shortening with good results, but the fact of the matter is the recipes with less fat give a pastry that is never as "short" as it should be.

There are some wonderful bakers here, I agree with Jennyema, if you post a recip you like the look of, try it and tell us where its going wrong someone will be ble to help.

 

[millicent]

thanks peeps. Well i dont mind starting at the very beginning. say jam tarts.
Then i could attempt pies couldnt i?

I gave up trying years ago but from what i remember, i used the standard ingredients, measured carefully, everything cold or cool, mixed in a blender and turned out, wrapped and put it fridge.
After awhile take out and roll, but it falls to pieces. piece together what i can and bake that. Its just like a 2year old made it.

 

[lulu]

My shortest pastry is crumbly, just very gently finger together.

NB: I make jam tarts with a sweet shortcrust even pate sucree proper. I used to make them for young music students who came after school and needed a sugar rush to keep them going and the pate sucree won hands down on their taste tests. Funnily enough the sweet pastry seems to work as well as a good buttery short pastry, instead of butterily cradling the jam it balances the sweetness. I'm for jam tarts full stop, but try a batch of each pastry...compare!

 

[StirBlue]

(Add the salt to the flour before you begin) When you are cutting your fat into the flour, cut it until it resembles tiny peas or cornmeal. You can put this into another bowl to check for flour in the bottom of the bowl that has not been cut into the flour. Instead of pouring the tablespoons of water into this, put the measured water into a spray bottle. Lightly spray the top and stir this through. Repeat until you get the doughy ball. I like to use a brown paper grocery bag for rolling. You just cut off the bottom and then cut open one side so that it folds out. Sift enough flour over the paper to coat. Place your dough in the center and using your palm, press it down slightly so that you can roll it. Dust your rolling pin with flour and sift a little flour over the dough. Roll from the middle of the dough just a few inches at a time in all directions to start the circle. Don't press to hard. Do not add more flour to the dough rather dust your rolling pin if it gets sticky. Continue rolling from the middle toward all directions until it is the desired thickness. The edges will be raggedy but you have to trim those. When you are finished, just roll up the paper and throw it away.

 

[taxlady]

So, is a shortcrust what a North American would call a pie crust?

 

[Alix]

taxlady, this thread is REALLY old. From the content I'm going to guess that short crust does indeed mean pie crust.

 

[taxlady]

taxlady, this thread is REALLY old. From the content I'm going to guess that short crust does indeed mean pie crust.

I found this forum because I Googled "quark" and there was a fabulous looking recipe for a German cheesecake that uses a "shortcrust". I searched the forum for shortcrust and got this thread and that recipe.

Should I have just started a new thread?

 

[DaveSoMD]

You might get some more replies that way and even some specific recipes if you as in a new thread.

 

[Alix]

I found this forum because I Googled "quark" and there was a fabulous looking recipe for a German cheesecake that uses a "shortcrust". I searched the forum for shortcrust and got this thread and that recipe.

Should I have just started a new thread?

Ooooo taxlady, I think the recipe you are talking about has a SHORTBREAD crust. If its the one I recall...it was killer good! The shortbread crust is way simple if you need the recipe I can provide that.

 

[Selkie]

Ooooo taxlady, I think the recipe you are talking about has a SHORTBREAD crust. If its the one I recall...it was killer good! The shortbread crust is way simple if you need the recipe I can provide that.

Actually, there is a pie crust called "shortcrust pastry." This crisp and light pastry is made with half the weight of fat to flour, with eggs or water to bind. It is easy and quick to make and speed is very important, as overworking toughens the dough.

Short-Crust Pastry

2 cups all-purpose flour
1/2 cup cold unsalted butter or lard, cubed
Pinch of salt
3-4 tablespoons ice water

1. Cut butter into flour using a pastry cutter until mixture resembles tiny split peas or bread crumbs.
2. Add water and form into a ball.
3. On a lightly floured surface, roll pastry out 2-inches larger than pie plate.
4. Bake at 400°F (205°C) for 18 to 20 minutes for baked pie shell, or follow directions of recipe calling for unbaked pastry shell.

Makes one 8 or 9-inch pie crust. Recipe may be doubled.

 

[taxlady]

Ooooo taxlady, I think the recipe you are talking about has a SHORTBREAD crust. If its the one I recall...it was killer good! The shortbread crust is way simple if you need the recipe I can provide that.

Nope, it really says shortcrust and gives the ingredients. I would have expected about twice as much butter if it were for a pie crust.

http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f41/german-cheesecake-made-with-quark-14534.html

Thanks for the offer of a shortbread recipe.

 

[Selkie]

I apologize, but the above recipe for shortcrust pastry has an error. Instead of 3-4 tablespoons of ice water, it should read 7-8 tablespoons of ice water.

 

[Alix]

Hmm. OK, that looks like a great recipe. Let us know how it goes!

 

[taxlady]

Actually, there is a pie crust called "shortcrust pastry." This crisp and light pastry is made with half the weight of fat to flour, with eggs or water to bind. It is easy and quick to make and speed is very important, as overworking toughens the dough...

I'll give that recipe a try some time.

At least now I know what a shortcrust is. I was afraid it was something complicated like a Danish "butterdej" (butter dough) that requires multiple folding and chilling.

I'll figure out something with 200 grams of whole wheat pastry flour. I am switching to weight measures for baking because it is more accurate (and most European recipes measure by weight). I will make my own usual adjustments for the fact that it's whole wheat.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

If I recall, the difference between a shortcrust and a pie crust is the amount of water added to the crust recipe. A piecrust is lighter and more flaky than is a shortcrust. Lard or shortening are the prefered fats for pie crust as there is very little water mixed in with those fats. Just enough ice water is added, after the fat is cut in, to form a crust that won't fall apart when handled.

A shortcrust, on the other hand, is made the same way as is a pie crust, but with more water added at the end, to create a more homogenous crust, like that found in a store bought Hostess, or Little Debbie fruit pie. It is easier to work with once formed as the water makes it more pliable.

Here's the rub. Over working a crust will develop the gluten in the crust, making it tough. But the dough can not be overworked until the water is added. This allows you to adjust the ratio of fat to flour until the texture is just right. And remember, butter contains water. It is the combination of water and the protien in the flour that combine when worked to form the gluten. So, don't add any water until the crust is ready for it, and then work the dough as little as possible.

Selkie's recipe and technique will give you great results. I speak from experience, having made more pies than I can count. I've even won a contest or two with them. Once you get the pea sized granules, you're most of the way there. I use 1/2 tsp. salt per cup of flour for flavor, and sometimes add a bit of sugar and cinamon, depending on the pie type. The first time I did that, my wife about flipped, stating that nobody does that and that I ruined the crust. It came out absolutely great. Those who ate it raved about it. I also substitute soup starter (I like the Better Than Boullion brand) for salt for meat pies, beef mix for a pot pie made with beef, chicken mix for a chicken pot pie, etc. Also, the soup starter has significant fat in it, and so that must be taken into account. Just cut it into the dough when cutting in the fat.

Seeeeya; Goodweed of the North

 

[taxlady]

Doesn't the extra water in the shortcrust make it sticky?

I'm really not worried about overworking the dough and making it tough. After asking every decent pie maker for tricks, I learned to make whole wheat crust that wasn't tough. Now I working on making it less flaky, but at least too flaky isn't as objectionable as too tough.

What is the advantage of the more homogeneous dough? I'm not familiar with store bought pies. It's not something we buy.

I really just want to try making that German cheesecake as authentically as possible.

If I recall, the difference between a shortcrust and a pie crust is the amount of water added to the crust recipe. A piecrust is lighter and more flaky than is a shortcrust. Lard or shortening are the prefered fats for pie crust as there is very little water mixed in with those fats. Just enough ice water is added, after the fat is cut in, to form a crust that won't fall apart when handled.

A shortcrust, on the other hand, is made the same way as is a pie crust, but with more water added at the end, to create a more homogenous crust, like that found in a store bought Hostess, or Little Debbie fruit pie. It is easier to work with once formed as the water makes it more pliable.

Here's the rub. Over working a crust will develop the gluten in the crust, making it tough. But the dough can not be overworked until the water is added. This allows you to adjust the ratio of fat to flour until the texture is just right. And remember, butter contains water. It is the combination of water and the protien in the flour that combine when worked to form the gluten. So, don't add any water until the crust is ready for it, and then work the dough as little as possible.

Selkie's recipe and technique will give you great results. I speak from experience, having made more pies than I can count. I've even won a contest or two with them. Once you get the pea sized granules, you're most of the way there. I use 1/2 tsp. salt per cup of flour for flavor, and sometimes add a bit of sugar and cinamon, depending on the pie type. The first time I did that, my wife about flipped, stating that nobody does that and that I ruined the crust. It came out absolutely great. Those who ate it raved about it. I also substitute soup starter (I like the Better Than Boullion brand) for salt for meat pies, beef mix for a pot pie made with beef, chicken mix for a chicken pot pie, etc. Also, the soup starter has significant fat in it, and so that must be taken into account. Just cut it into the dough when cutting in the fat.

Seeeeya; Goodweed of the North

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

Doesn't the extra water in the shortcrust make it sticky?

I'm really not worried about overworking the dough and making it tough. After asking every decent pie maker for tricks, I learned to make whole wheat crust that wasn't tough. Now I working on making it less flaky, but at least too flaky isn't as objectionable as too tough.

What is the advantage of the more homogeneous dough? I'm not familiar with store bought pies. It's not something we buy.

I really just want to try making that German cheesecake as authentically as possible.

To a degree it does. But you're not going to add that much more water. And, you flour the working surface and sprinkle a bit of flour on top of the crust as you roll it out. This keeps it from sticking. You can also roll it between sheets of plastic wrap, which makes it easy to handle.

The less flaky dough is used where the crust has to be more sturdy, as in pies that are self contained mini-pies, and made to be eaten with your hands. If you are familiar with pasties, they use a shortcrust. Shortcrust is also good for tarts. My pie crusts are so tender that they can't be eaten by hand. The crust will disintegrate as you handle it. So shortcrust has its place. It's still tender, but is more sturdy. They're good for butter tarts, mini pecan pies, etc.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North