Giada De Laurentiis Italian American Sandwich Cookie problem

[marmalady]

Lisa, one last thing you might want to check is your oven's temp; this is a common problems that foils us all the time; it's very common for an oven to go 'out of temp'. Get yourself a good oven thermometer, and give it a test run.

Do you also know that when that little bell goes off when you've preheated your oven, you should wait at least another 15 minutes? Almost all oven timers go off before the preset heat is reached - don't ask me why!!

If your oven wasn't hot enough, it would account for the dough spreading like that.

 

[Lisa110]

Hi marmalady, thanks for your suggestion I do have an oven thermometer, and it read exactly 350..so I don't think it was the oven temperature. I also tried preheating it for a short time (10 minutes) and then on another test batch, a long time (20 minutes). I truly do think it has something to do with the flour minus baking powder, but I won't know until I try it.

I wonder if Food Network chefs (as some chefs without TV shows do) purposely leave out an ingredient or two, in certain recipes, so people will buy their cookbooks?

 

[Audeo]

PA and all, my apologies for the confusion regarding the baking powder. It is, indeed 1/2 teaspoon and I have edited the original recipe I posted to show same.

Ah, humility....

It's not any more difficult to pipe from a chilled piping bag, than to load chilled dough into the bag, then pipe. But it is easier and cleaner, if you will. Being butter based, the stuff warms pretty quickly!

 

[Lisa110]

I just baked the cookies again, this time with the added 1/2 tsp of baking powder, but the stars still flattened into puffy disks. I did exactly as I did last time, except this time I chilled the dough in the pastry bag for two hours, then piped them, then chilled them for two more hours. No luck.

On the TV show, her cookies came out like the ones you see at the Italian Bakery -- perfectly puffy stars, the star tip ridges golden atop the lighter cookie.

I'm at the pojnt where I almost want to phone Tyler Florence for a little Food 911..LOL. I've been baking for ages, so I really don't know what else I can do, except try the Cook's Illustrated spritz/star cookie recipe which calls for one egg yolk and two Tbs of heavy cream, instead of the one whole egg, although I have a feeling they will flatten too.

Any other ideas? Should I try self rising flour? Will the addition of the baking soda do anything?

 

[debthecook]

Is there a difference in Star Tips? Audeo mentioned #4. Are there different numbered tips? Perhaps thats whats missing.

 

[Audeo]

That's a great question, deb. I have a whole bunch that I put away so well that I can't find at this moment, of course, or I would measure the end's diameter. That #4 size came from the top of my head and still think I'm right in that this is the tip size I used. It's a medium tip, not as large as a #5 or #6, the latter being as large as my little finger.

I will find them and confirm. In the interim, I do wonder what size Lisa was using....

 

[marmalady]

Hmmm this one's 'stump the forum' for sure! The absolute last thing I can think of is your brand of butter; different brands have more water content in them - and the labels don't say, so you don't really know til you've melted some down; I've found more 'spatter' means more water in the butter.

 

[Psiguyy]

I would suggest using an 827 tip. It's large and you'd need a minimum 16 bag. The opening is large, so hardly anything can get stuck in it. It's perfect for making whipped cream rosettes on cakes and pies. It's also the perfect tip for macaroons. I'm sure it will do a great job for these cookies.

 

[Audeo]

This is truly baffling, Lisa. So sorry for the frustrations and I can't imagine what the heck is going on. I'd try marmalady's suggestion of checking your butter, but beyond that....

Geez. Stumped for sure.

 

[Lisa110]

Thanks again for the replies, everyone
I usually use Land O' Lakes unsalted butter in all of my baking recipes. Also, I used a number 828 star tip for these. I did try using a few smaller ones (I changed the tip and piped different sizes on one batch), but they still flattened and spread. I truly think something is definitely 'off' in this recipe. I'm probably going to try the Cook's Illustrated recipe with the egg yolk and heavy cream, and see how that works out.

In the mean time, I did manage to make my 'flat' cookies look great. I sandwiched half of them with raspberry jam, and the other half with Valrhona semi-sweet chocolate, then dipped the tops in the melted chocolate, and rolled them in different toppings, such as colored crystallized sugar, sprinkles, and nuts. I used the last bits of chocolate to simply drizzle over the cookies that weren't dipped, when there was no longer enough to dip the top of the cookie. They came out quite pretty, and looked just like the ones from the bakery. In other words, the aesthetics were somewhat salvaged, flat or not..LOL

 

[Lisa110]

Hurray! The Cook's Illustrated Spritz worked! I didn't even chill the dough, and they still held the star shape. If you want them to be puffier stars, then you should chill them for about an hour or two, which I'm going to do next time. Here's the recipe

Spritz/Italian Butter cookies that HOLD THEIR SHAPE

Makes about 6 dozen 1 1/2-inch cookies

1 large egg yolk
1 tablespoon heavy cream
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1 cup unsalted butter (2 sticks), softened (about 70 degrees)
2/3 cup sugar (about 4-3/4 ounces)
1/4 teaspoon table salt
2 cups unbleached all-purpose flour (10 ounces)

1. Adjust oven rack to middle position; heat oven to 375 degrees. In small bowl, beat yolk, cream, and vanilla with fork until combined; set aside.

2. In standing mixer, cream butter, sugar, and salt at medium-high speed until light and fluffy, 3 to 4 minutes. Scrape down bowl with rubber spatula. With mixer running at medium speed, add yolk/cream mixture and beat until incorporated, about 30 seconds. Scrape down bowl. With mixer running at low speed, gradually beat in flour until combined. Scrape down bowl and give final stir with rubber spatula to ensure that no flour pockets remain.

3. If using cookie press to form cookies, follow manufacturer's instructions to fill press; if using pastry bag, follow illustrations 1 through 3 below to fill bag. Press or pipe cookies onto ungreased baking sheets, spacing them about 1-1/2 inches apart. Bake one sheet at a time until cookies are light golden brown, 10 to 12 minutes, rotating baking sheet halfway through baking time. Cool cookies on baking sheet until just warm, 10 to 15 minutes; using metal spatula, transfer to wire rack and cool to room temperature.

 

[Audeo]

Good job, Lisa! You solved your own dilema!

That's an interesting recipe. The only differences that I can see are the obvious omission of the egg white, 1/3 cup less sugar and 1/2 cup less flour, the inclusion of 1 tablespoon of cream, less salt and obviously no baking powder. Would you agree?

What is the taste and texture like as compared to the first recipe? Are they firmer? I'm sure they taste fanstatic! I would also assume that they were easier to pipe, due to less flour.

Very interesting!

(PS: Edited to correct to "due to less flour" before psiguyy sees this...! )

 

[Lisa110]

Thank you. Audeo, and I'm glad I solved this dilemma before Christmas. It should be fun to make all kinds of different shapes with my pastry tips!

I totally agree with your assessment of the recipe and how different it is from Giada's. It's barely resembles hers as far as some of the ingredients, the measurements and amounts go, but all I cared about was a great tasting cookie (which Giada's was), that held the shape (which Giada's did not) that I piped out. The weird thing is, I thought omitting the egg white would give me an even flatter, shapeless cookie, since egg whites 'puff', but then I came to the conclusion that maybe that initial 'puff' took away the shapely ridges, before it deflated and spread.. kind of like a souffle 5-10 minutes after you take it out of the oven.

These cookies are flaky, tender, crunchy, and have a great buttery taste. I highly recommend that you give these a try and tell me what you think

 

[Audeo]

Well, you sold me! I will give this recipe a try, hopefully on Sunday when we're to have yukky, cold, rainy weather...a cookie day, by my definition.

As I said before, I never experienced the difficulties that you had with my recipe, but I'm all for trying new variations, especially one with a wee bit less sugar without compromise!

I really appreciate your feedback, Lisa!

 

[Lisa110]

Oops, you posted before my last edit, where I attempted to think up a scientific explanation a la Shirley Corriher. LOL

In any event, like you, I relish the idea of less sugar resulting in just the right amount of sweeteness.

Also, I forgot to add, they are a lot easier to pipe, and pull away cleanly from the tip, probably due to, like you said, the butter to flour ratio. I piped them so fast, I felt like Jacques Torres!

 

[Audeo]

Aha! Edit duly noted and deeply appreciated!

The egg white conclusion also makes sense now...

 

[Psiguyy]

The recipe looks suspiciously similar to shortbread cookie dough. The exceptions are the liquids.

 

[Lisa110]

I noticed that the egg yolk included in the recipe was next to the title, so I changed it back to the way it should be.

These cookies do not taste or have the same texture as shortbread. You should give them a try

 

[LEFSElover]

Yowza, what a crazy thread!
I, too, watch Giada and love her. She is so darn cute, with that gorgeous smile of hers and that perfect Roman nose, and the 89£ tiny weeny body of hers, I just could pinch those cute little cheeks of hers. But having watched that episode, she even had trouble piping her cookies, which I noticed from the get go. I think her mini morsels had trouble sticking too, as I recall.

Funniest thing is, on my last work session, I worked with a man who told me about these incredible little Italian cookies he always makes for the holidays. I asked him for the recipe and he told me he had to get it (again) from his boyfriends' mother. It's her recipe I guess. Anyway, I think what this original post is about, is what he was referring to. Now I don't have to wait for his email, instead, I'm emailing this whole 4+ pages to him.

You people in here are awesome and so informative. This board is so much better than the Foodtv.com bulletin boards where I swear, we fought more than actually helped each other. Again, pattin you all on the backs and I can't wait to try these two or is it three :? , recipes?

this is edited because I just found GDLR's recipe for this cookie. It does call for AP flour.