"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > Recipes & Ingredients > Beef, Pork, Lamb & Venison > Beef
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-23-2013, 09:47 AM   #21
Executive Chef
 
Mad Cook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: North West England
Posts: 4,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacanis View Post
Are they (grocery stores) doing something different when they grind burger these days? Why was it OK to eat a rare burger as a kid, but not now?
If it's just a "don't eat red meat, least of all rare" thing OK, those people and groups live among us, but is there something that actually makes today's hamburger less healthy that the burger of yesteryear?
I think we didn't bother back then. We ate all sorts of things that are now considered injurious to health - butter, coffee, red meat, rare meat, soft cooked and raw eggs - and because we didn't have 'fridges I expect we used to eat food that wasn't as fresh as we insist on now. I noticed at the recent food festival in the village that the game (pheasant, wild boar, venison, etc) from the local supplier wasn't as strongly flavoured as it used to be 20-30 years ago. When I served up a roast pheasant to a friend the other night he thought it was free-range chicken.

I suppose, too, it could have something to do with the mad cow disease panic there was a few years back. There was a connection found between meat from cattle infected with Bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), and the variant form of Creuzfeldt-Jacob disease in humans.

Burgers are not the gorgeous things in the UK that they are in the USA and usually come cremated with no choice for the customer. You can buy a steak in restaurants rare, medium, well done, or, as I like mine, still moo-ing but you never get the choice when it comes to burgers. When I see burgers on "Triple D" I despair of British ones. They are basically at the lower, cheap, end of convenience food and a friend who was visiting from America and insisted on having a McDonald's meal was appalled at the difference in style and quality between yours and ours. (Yours was better!)
__________________

__________________
Mad Cook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 10:17 AM   #22
Executive Chef
 
Mad Cook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: North West England
Posts: 4,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Longwind Of The North View Post
Also, in years past, most beef came from local sources, and you knew your butcher. The butchers took great pride in their work,


With both pork and chicken, nasty microbes and parasites live in the muscle tissue. This why they have to be cooked to sufficient internal temperatures to kill the critters.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
"Also, in years past, most beef came from local sources, and you knew your butcher. The butchers took great pride in their work, "
I'm lucky to still have this. An independent "proper" butcher, run by the 3rd and 4th generations of the family, using meat from named farms within no more that 40 miles away and they buy their meat as carcasses rather than buying it ready cut as many chain butchers do.

"With both pork and chicken, nasty microbes and parasites live in the muscle tissue. This why they have to be cooked to sufficient internal temperatures to kill the critters." I was appalled to see a (well-known, both here and in the States) chef claim that it is perfectly OK to eat under-cooked pork because the health of meat animals is better nowadays!!!! What planet is he living on? Incidence of tapeworm infection from meat or fish is very rare in the UK but I still wouldn't want to risk it. Unfortunately a couple of other less well known ones have parroted the same nonsense on television.
__________________

__________________
Mad Cook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 12:16 PM   #23
Master Chef
 
jennyema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 9,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Cook;1303049
[COLOR=red
"With both pork and chicken, nasty microbes and parasites live in the muscle tissue. This why they have to be cooked to sufficient internal temperatures to kill the critters." [/COLOR]I was appalled to see a (well-known, both here and in the States) chef claim that it is perfectly OK to eat under-cooked pork because the health of meat animals is better nowadays!!!! What planet is he living on? Incidence of tapeworm infection from meat or fish is very rare in the UK but I still wouldn't want to risk it. Unfortunately a couple of other less well known ones have parroted the same nonsense on television.

Even the overly-cautious USDA says its ok to eat pinkish pork. Its safe at 145 degrees.

Trichinosis (roundworm, not tapeworm) hasn't been around in years.

The USDA safe cooking temperatures for meat:
145 for all whole cuts of red meat
160 for ground red meat
165 for poultry
__________________
Less is not more. More is more and more is fabulous.
jennyema is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 02:20 PM   #24
Sous Chef
 
mmyap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 673
I like my burgers a bit pink, just not bloody. Ironically we seem to have more recalls of contaminated vegetables lately. Things like spinach. I try and stick with locally grown produce if at all possible just for the freshness factor and trying to keep or local farmers in business. Believe it or not, local produce is more expensive then the stuff shipped in from off island. Go figure.
__________________
mmyap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 07:38 PM   #25
Executive Chef
 
Mad Cook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: North West England
Posts: 4,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennyema View Post
Even the overly-cautious USDA says its ok to eat pinkish pork. Its safe at 145 degrees.

Trichinosis (roundworm, not tapeworm) hasn't been around in years.

The USDA safe cooking temperatures for meat:
145 for all whole cuts of red meat
160 for ground red meat
165 for poultry
It hasn't been reported in the UK for over 20 years but there were 71 reported cases of tapeworm infection in 2005. Not a lot but 71 too many.

In the UK, government still advises against the consumption of under- cooked pork (among other things) despite regulations imposed to protect the food chain.
__________________
Mad Cook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 08:28 PM   #26
Master Chef
 
jennyema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 9,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Cook View Post
It hasn't been reported in the UK for over 20 years but there were 71 reported cases of tapeworm infection in 2005. Not a lot but 71 too many.
The 71 was food bourne tapeworm or all cases ?


At any rate , 71 cases out of 60 million people is a pretty safe bet.
__________________
Less is not more. More is more and more is fabulous.
jennyema is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 08:34 PM   #27
Chef Extraordinaire
 
taxlady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: near Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 18,874
Send a message via Skype™ to taxlady
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennyema View Post
Even the overly-cautious USDA says its ok to eat pinkish pork. Its safe at 145 degrees.

Trichinosis (roundworm, not tapeworm) hasn't been around in years.

The USDA safe cooking temperatures for meat:
145 for all whole cuts of red meat
160 for ground red meat
165 for poultry
Looks like the NHS in GB is even more overly cautions than the USDA. They say that tapeworm can be killed by freezing to -10C for at least 48 hours, but you should still cook meat and fish thoroughly.

From Tapeworm infections - Prevention - NHS Choices

According to the Mayo Clinic, "Thoroughly cook meat at temperatures of at least 125 F (52 C) to kill tapeworm eggs or larvae." At least that is a description of "thoroughly cooked" that doesn't mean it has to be cooked to dry.

Tapeworm infection: Prevention - MayoClinic.com
__________________
May you live as long as you wish and love as long as you live.
Robert A. Heinlein
taxlady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 09:10 PM   #28
Chef Extraordinaire
 
pacanis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NW PA
Posts: 18,751
Interesting. Do you know a dog can eat tapeworm eggs/segments and NOT get tapeworm? Impossible.
The only way a dog can get tapeworm is from eating a flea that has the tapeworm larvae living inside it, from the flea that ate the eggs. I wonder why we humans can contract it easier?
On the plus side though, heartworms die in our blood. I guess it's a trade-off.
__________________
Give us this day our daily bacon.
pacanis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 10:41 PM   #29
Master Chef
 
jennyema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 9,256
If tapeworm is killed at 125, then rare meat of any sort is fine.

Not that I'll eat it (not out of fear of tapeworm... which would be a good addition to my weight loss program at this point. )

I can't eat mooing oinking meat
__________________
Less is not more. More is more and more is fabulous.
jennyema is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 02:55 AM   #30
Senior Cook
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: northeast
Posts: 169
Several years ago there was a big movement to Irradiate all meats and fresh vegetables. I remember taking a Serve Safe class that said this was our future, particularly poultry. I believe through the years it was thought that the minute amounts of radiation would be more dangerous than the bacteria it killed. I remember when the first [Radar Range] Microwave ovens first came out, the same thoughts prevailed then.
__________________

__________________
''Good cooking is when things taste of what they are''
mysterychef is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Discuss Cooking on Facebook

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.