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Old 06-18-2010, 09:44 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Nicholas Mosher View Post
BigAL - Brined and cold-smoked pig shoulder is commonly used in boiled dinners, I'm surprised you've never heard of cooking brined/cold-smoked meats in this fashion (such as corned beef, although it's not smoked).
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I've never heard of it. I didn't even know people boiled corned beef until the internet. We are a bit different out here, if ya couldn't tell already. When I was a kid, meat was always on the grill and Dad would smoke every once in a while. I guess Mom used to boil hot dogs, and we had to drink the water.

I'll have to check it out, something new for us to try. Thanks Nick.
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:16 AM   #22
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Unless you're using a thermometer, what most people consider as simmering (small bubbles breaking the surface) is actually boiling. State change in water only occurs at saturation, or 212ºF/100ºC standard pressure at sea level.
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:38 PM   #23
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From Webster's dictionary:


Main Entry: 1boil
Pronunciation: \ˈbȯi(-ə)l\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French buillir, boillir, from Latin bullire to bubble, from bulla bubble
Date: 13th century
intransitive verb 1 a : to come to the boiling point b : to generate bubbles of vapor when heated —used of a liquid c : to cook in boiling water
2 : to become agitated : seethe
3 : to be moved, excited, or stirred up
4 a : to rush headlong b : to burst forth
5 : to undergo the action of a boiling liquidtransitive verb 1 : to subject to the action of a boiling liquid
2 : to heat to the boiling point
3 : to form or separate (as sugar or salt) by boiling




Poach -
Main Entry: 1poach
Pronunciation: \ˈpōch\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English pocchen, from Middle French pocher, from Old French poché poached, literally, bagged, from poche bag, pocket — more at pouch
Date: 15th century

Simmer -
Main Entry: 1sim·mer
Pronunciation: \ˈsi-mər\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): sim·mered; sim·mer·ing \ˈsi-mə-riŋ, ˈsim-riŋ\
Etymology: alteration of English dial. simper, from Middle English simperen, of imitative origin
Date: 1653
intransitive verb 1 : to stew gently below or just at the boiling poin

And so we see by the above accepted standard definitions, to simmer is to cook something in water at just below, or at the boiling point.

Typically, in cooking terminology, the noun form of simmer is synonomous with - gentle boil - while boil in either noun of verb form are used to describe a medium boil. Hard and rapid boil are the same thing.

Another interesting term is coddled, as in coddled egg. This is where an egg in placed in water exceeding 175 F, but less than 212 F. The water is hot enough to set the egg white and yolk, but doesn't move. This allows the coddled egg to retain cohesive rather than breaking apart from moving water. It could be said that the egg strands in egg-crop soup are a form of coddled egg.

It is also interesting to note that meat that is boiled, or even simmered can dry out from overcooking, while poaching the meat in temperatures not exceeding 160' will cook, but not dry out the meat. If the meat is placed into an air-tight evacuated plastic bag, and immersed in water between 145 and 160' F., this is called sou-vide and is a great way to create a tender product. Unfortunately, you won't get any browning, and the rich flavor that the browning imparts to the meat.

I do tend to go on sometimes. I think I'll go to another thread now.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:00 PM   #24
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Liquid-Vapor phase changes only occur when enough energy is introduced into the fluid to reach saturation at the given location. A "gentle" boil is a boil. At least thats what I was taught and practiced in Thermodynamics at UMass. If you are using a thermometer and distinguishing between sub-saturation levels (or have a really good finger), you may full-well be following these cooking methods. However, the majority of cooks that I know consider regular small bubbles rising to the surface of the cooking fluid to be a simmer - which is actually a boil.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:21 PM   #25
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Here's another take on the subject. Poaching vs. Simmering vs. Boiling, Cooking Techniques, Boiling point of water, How To Boil, Simmer, and Poach

I also looked at a couple of other sites and they supported this explanation - some with minor differences.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:50 PM   #26
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I wonder why the farmer would say they have made pulled pork sandwiches out of these. Now that it's defrosted - I opened it and took a peek. Looks like ham.
It definitely doesn't look like a pork loin type of product. I might go and buy a boston but tomorrow and make my lovely planned pulled pork. I'm just nervous is all.

I'm making homemade baked beans and homemade cole slaw.

If I do buy a boston butt for pulled pork - I would loveeee to make the stew posted before and possibly freeze it.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:14 PM   #27
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You will enjoy the results, whether slowly roasted in a slow oven, or cooked in a slow cooker. Just remember, the meat thermometer is your friend, and 190'F. is your target temperature.

As for the physics lesson, the scientific definition of boiling is correct that Nicholas Mosher gives. But labels used to describe cooking techniques, such as simmer, boil, braise, poach, etc., are just that. They are not scientific in nature and are used to more accurately describe differing cooking techniques, not define a state of matter.

I hope I'm being helpful to all. And to legend_018, forget the rhetoric that we sometimes get into and cook up some pulled pork to amaze your guests. Season to taste with S & P, and serve up the beans, cole slaw and several sauces for the sandwiches. You will be the star, or rather, your food will be, and you will be appreciated.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:12 AM   #28
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The point I was trying to make was that "Boiling" won't toughen meat any more than a "Simmer" - when "Simmering" is defined as a "gentle boil" rather than a specific sub-212ºF condition.

Anyhoo, I returned PMs to you Goodweed and legend.

Have a great weekend with even better food!
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:12 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAL View Post
Is the shoulder cooked and smoked or just smoked? Is it ready to be pulled?

I'm smoke'n 2 boston butts this weekend, also. I buy them raw and smoke myself, though, but I hope this helps. I like to smoke the day before, smoke to an internal temp of about 200 or when the bone will pull out clean. Let it cool a bit and rest, then pull in just a bit bigger chunks than you'd probably want on a "sammich", I put this all in a large alum foil pan, then cover w/foil and into the ice box.

Next day, about 3 hrs before the party I uncover the pan and it goes back on the smoker at 225*. I also have a mix of apple cider vinegar and apple juice(50-50) and more rub to put on the pulled pork. add alittle of each and test every 30-45min until it tastes right. By adding, mix'n and taste'n it breaks up the meat how you want it. The rub and "mop" are to just add to but not over power the pork.

You'll also want to make some cole slaw, it goes great on top of a hot pulled pork sammich!

Good luck! Maybe these pix will help.







Big Al your pulled pork doesn't look right, something strange with the color... I'm worried about you and your loved ones, please PM me for my address so you can send it my way... I will make sure that it is cooked properly, not everybody would be willing to put there life on the line for you, I hope you appreciate it.....
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:34 PM   #30
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I'll send my address too...
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