ironchef
Executive Chef
It is what it is. Top of the food chain. Maybe one day there will be some large carnivorous beasts all with an average 160+ IQ and then we'll all be toast and running for our lives. But until then, eat it, enjoy it.
Is it true that veal is made of baby lambs who weren't allowed to sit down?
- Thread starter Banana Brain
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I eat and enjoy most meats. I do not sanction cruelty to animals which is why I put my money where my mouth is by buying organic meat - and know where that meat was raised (less than 20 miles away from the butcher's shop where I buy it!), free range, organic eggs, organic vegetables and where possible organic fruit.
Doesn't mean I would ever stop anyone else from eating any foodstuff they want - I am not a member of PETA.
Doesn't mean I would ever stop anyone else from eating any foodstuff they want - I am not a member of PETA.
Constance
Master Chef
Did you ever stop to consider the mentality of these animals? Chickens, turkeys, cattle and sheep are REALLY dumb. A tame turkey will actually drown in the rain, because he looks up to see where it's coming from.
The pigs are the only ones that have any sense. But they are not like the sweet little pot-belly pigs that people make pets of. They are mean and vicious animals who will eat ther young if they get in a bad mood. A sow with young will attack anyone or thing that startles her, and the boars...forget it.
We had a local farmer who had a heart attack while he was out slopping the hogs, and they ate him. True fact.
In Illinois, we have a lot of giant factory farms. Hogs are big business here. There are also many large poultry operations, and we have our fair share of cattle.
I must say, I have never been in a slaughter house, or visited the hog or chicken operations. And, really, I don't want to know.
I do much prefer the new pork to the old greasy, whangy stuff we used to get, but I think that's largly due to breeding and diet. We have friends that raise a few hogs, and they are mighty durned good.
On the other hand, I never cared for their chickens. They fed them a good diet, but I could still taste the grasshoppers.
I love the country eggs, but you have to be more careful with them. It really depends on how well the chickens are cared for. I've been in lovely little hen houses, with well-fed, happy hens, and it's a thrill to feel under the chickens and gather the eggs. I've also seen chickens that were not that well-tended. Nuff said.
I'd be the first one to fight cruelty to animals, but certain animals were put here for food..."the fowl of the air, the fish of the sea, and the cattle of the land". It is easy to feel bad about killing sweet bunnies or Bambi, but the way these creatures multiply is reason enough to know that they were intended for food.
The pigs are the only ones that have any sense. But they are not like the sweet little pot-belly pigs that people make pets of. They are mean and vicious animals who will eat ther young if they get in a bad mood. A sow with young will attack anyone or thing that startles her, and the boars...forget it.
We had a local farmer who had a heart attack while he was out slopping the hogs, and they ate him. True fact.
In Illinois, we have a lot of giant factory farms. Hogs are big business here. There are also many large poultry operations, and we have our fair share of cattle.
I must say, I have never been in a slaughter house, or visited the hog or chicken operations. And, really, I don't want to know.
I do much prefer the new pork to the old greasy, whangy stuff we used to get, but I think that's largly due to breeding and diet. We have friends that raise a few hogs, and they are mighty durned good.
On the other hand, I never cared for their chickens. They fed them a good diet, but I could still taste the grasshoppers.
I love the country eggs, but you have to be more careful with them. It really depends on how well the chickens are cared for. I've been in lovely little hen houses, with well-fed, happy hens, and it's a thrill to feel under the chickens and gather the eggs. I've also seen chickens that were not that well-tended. Nuff said.
I'd be the first one to fight cruelty to animals, but certain animals were put here for food..."the fowl of the air, the fish of the sea, and the cattle of the land". It is easy to feel bad about killing sweet bunnies or Bambi, but the way these creatures multiply is reason enough to know that they were intended for food.
Diane1415
Senior Cook
Factory Farms destroy the environment, allow desease to develop and infest the animals because of the unsanitary conditions inherant in such methods, and lower property values in addition to the unconscionable cruelty involved.
I value my health, that is why I eat NO animal products.
I value my health, that is why I eat NO animal products.
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
Factrory farms provide reasonably priced, high quality meats, poultry, vegetables , grains, dairy and eggs for the American consumer as well as consumers in other parts of the world. The quality of foods available to the average American consumer is second to none.
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I teach the children and young adults of farmers and have for all my professioanl life. I have the greatest respect for their business practices, their agricultural knoweldge, and their professional and ethical practices. I have learned much from farmers and hunters about stewardship of resources and proper management. The farm that raises pigs for Hatfield, the dairy providing milk and cream for Land O'Lakes, the farm raising poultry for Purdue, or growing feed crops of soy beans corn and sorghum, or the micro farm growing special greens and lettuce for restaurants, or hops for brew pubs, or the local mellon berry apple and peach growers. I've been there, seen them, learned from them and benefited from their awesome products.
If there is a crime being perpetrated, it's the mangling of good food products by the fast food industry. Our insatiable appetite for hot wings, chicken strips, and burgers probably causes more abuse than any other issue. (ok, the abuse of stone crabs..ripping claws off and throwing them back to grow another. )
let's discuss some other issues on this topic.
If there is a crime being perpetrated, it's the mangling of good food products by the fast food industry. Our insatiable appetite for hot wings, chicken strips, and burgers probably causes more abuse than any other issue. (ok, the abuse of stone crabs..ripping claws off and throwing them back to grow another. )
let's discuss some other issues on this topic.
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
The thread topic was started to discuss conditions under which veal calfs are raised. Let's stick to that.
Poppinfresh
Senior Cook
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2006
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- 496
Diane1415 said:
Oh boy....that post is just...beyond words. Not gonna touch it.
Anyhow, back on the original topic--if you aren't kosher with the way veal is made, you're gonna want to avoid a lot of products. Kobe beef is off limits to you, foie gras (though personally I find it kind of nasty, anyways), anything sold by Tyson or KFC (PETA has shown enough of those videos), any type of pork whatsoever (the pig's final moments are...not kind--they get a shocker shoved up their rear end to stun em and then a hammer to the head and a Columbian necktie for good measure), lobster (dipped live into boiling water or else put into a steamer to die), any type of crab (arms ripped off while still alive), shark (disemboweled), king salmon (same)...I could go on for hours.
They're animals. In a technical sense, so are we. Animals eat other animals, it's just the way things are. To say it's cruel how animals we eat are killed is rather asinine, though--give me a choice and I'd take one of their methods of death over getting chased and ultimately ripped to shreds while still alive to a pack of some other form of predator.
OP
OP
Banana Brain
Sous Chef
- Joined
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MAN I got a lot of answers! Thanks everyone. I feel much more educated. I'll try veal as soon as I come across a menue with veal anywhere on it.
when I was in Washington, you can see the baby cows, they are in tiny little caged areas, where they can't walk, and have little dog houses. I guess they said, they don't let them move around, because they don't want to make muscle on the cows, which makes the meat tuff.. ever since I see those little baby cows in the farms, I haven't be able to bring myself to eat veal.
OP
OP
Banana Brain
Sous Chef
- Joined
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- 647
Look, as long as I'm already eating meat (which is, after all, taking lives to get nutrients and protein I could get from other places) it doesn't make that huge of a difference what happened to the animal to me. I used to be a vegetarian because I thought so much about the animals lives. But now that I'm not a vegetarian, there isn't really a "middle way". I can either think about the fact that once I'm sticking in my mouth was once part of a living thing, or pretend that meat is grown from the earth and was always as static as it is on my plate. When I eat it, I really have to choose the latter.
Debbie, I've been to DC also and those polititions helpers really don't amount to much in the rest of our food chain.
I guess that means if the Washington group doesn't do it for you; Buy your veal from somewhere else like maybe France or Argintina.
Back to where we started, NO veal isn't lamb mistreated but rather calves butchered that then taste like really mild and good meat.
I guess that means if the Washington group doesn't do it for you; Buy your veal from somewhere else like maybe France or Argintina.
Back to where we started, NO veal isn't lamb mistreated but rather calves butchered that then taste like really mild and good meat.
There is a certain amount of political correctness when it comes to veal, especially among our British friends.
Please look at it this way: killing animals to eat their flesh is unkind by definition. And the raising and slaughtering of calves is quite comparable to the other animals we eat. It is wishful thinking to believe otherwise.
Best regards,
Alex R.
Please look at it this way: killing animals to eat their flesh is unkind by definition. And the raising and slaughtering of calves is quite comparable to the other animals we eat. It is wishful thinking to believe otherwise.
Best regards,
Alex R.
Hi Ishbel,
In fact, I didn't even read your post over the 4 page spread, and certainly did not mean to pick on you personally!
My comment had just to do with British friends and acquaintances I have met over the years here in France.
I've also met British people who are against bullfights, foie gras, etc.
It's a cultural thing. Youu simply wouldn't find that here.
Do you remember the British animal rights militants who sent letter bombs a while back?
One of them even died in England, throwing herself under a truck full of calves, trying to prevent it from moving...
As for the odd nature of the United Kingdom, can you think of anywhere else that claims that its provinces are separate countries, even allowing each of them to have a different currency (not to mention the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, etc.)?
I generally try to use the term "British" to avoid hurting anyone's sensitivities.
Best regards,
Alex R.
In fact, I didn't even read your post over the 4 page spread, and certainly did not mean to pick on you personally!
My comment had just to do with British friends and acquaintances I have met over the years here in France.
I've also met British people who are against bullfights, foie gras, etc.
It's a cultural thing. Youu simply wouldn't find that here.
Do you remember the British animal rights militants who sent letter bombs a while back?
One of them even died in England, throwing herself under a truck full of calves, trying to prevent it from moving...
As for the odd nature of the United Kingdom, can you think of anywhere else that claims that its provinces are separate countries, even allowing each of them to have a different currency (not to mention the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, etc.)?
I generally try to use the term "British" to avoid hurting anyone's sensitivities.
Best regards,
Alex R.
That's OK then.... so long as you were just generally 'dissing' the British, rather than aiming it at me
Edited to add: I am also against bull-fighting, foie gras and other things - just as I am against illegal dog-fighting, cock-fighting and bear-baiting and all other cruel 'sports' or animal rearing methods. That does not mean I ask anyone else to follow my views.
Edited to add: I am also against bull-fighting, foie gras and other things - just as I am against illegal dog-fighting, cock-fighting and bear-baiting and all other cruel 'sports' or animal rearing methods. That does not mean I ask anyone else to follow my views.
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Debbie said:
If you drive the country side here in the mid-west you will see those little houses on most farms. They actually use them for dairy cattle as well, simply for protection of the calves. They are big money and little animals. Leaving them in a barn full of milkers, one might get trampled. Mother cows (dairy cows at least, I know beef cattle are a little different) aren't as protective as their little ones as say hogs are.
Just another fun fact to add to the discussion.
CharlieD
Chef Extraordinaire
I've been to a slughter house and it is horible, but I am not about to stop eating meat. I am very much so against animal cruelty for one simple reason, G-d told us not to be cruel to animals.
From AllenMI:
Veal, in it's purest sense, is an off-shoot of the dairy industry. To keep the dairy cows producing milk, they have to have a new calf, I believe once a year. Dairy herders always welcome a hiefer, as this will grow into a new dairy cow. Young bulls, however, are not really needed, as the dairy herders only keep a few bulls around to create more calves.
This leads to a quandrary. What to do with the young bulls? They don't really grow into the best beef cattle. So, way-back-when, they started slaughtering and butchering the young bulls just after they were weaned.
OK, the original question seems to have been answered and we can let this thread go now. Thanks all for your posts.
Veal, in it's purest sense, is an off-shoot of the dairy industry. To keep the dairy cows producing milk, they have to have a new calf, I believe once a year. Dairy herders always welcome a hiefer, as this will grow into a new dairy cow. Young bulls, however, are not really needed, as the dairy herders only keep a few bulls around to create more calves.
This leads to a quandrary. What to do with the young bulls? They don't really grow into the best beef cattle. So, way-back-when, they started slaughtering and butchering the young bulls just after they were weaned.
OK, the original question seems to have been answered and we can let this thread go now. Thanks all for your posts.
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