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Old 04-28-2015, 05:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Silversage View Post
You seem to do this often. We discussed this ad nauseam the last time you started a thread about leaving food out. You didn't like the answers you got then so you probably won't like the answers you get now.

I think the same answers still apply.

Food Left Out, Spoilage concern
Huh? I do this often do I? I have covered a similar theme of this topic just ONCE before, so this hardly constitutes 'often'! Please do not exaggerate!

Also no-one has to discuss anything here "ad nauseam". Yes the thread you give the link to is the ONE other thread I made on food left out overnight - STEW to be specific, i.e. not just a LIQUID which is what this thread is about. Do you see no difference at all? One has meat in it!

You clearly did not read this thread of mine that you quoted since I was polite and thankful (see pages 2 and 3) and came to a decision that was helpful, i.e. based on info provided.

So I suggest you appraise me more accurately before criticising me...especially when you even go to the lengths of providing the link whereby others can verify that I was not ungrateful and that the info proved useful.

The thread went on exploring other people's interests, i.e. concerning cooked rice and immunity. I consider it to be a worthwhile thread therefore.
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by medtran49 View Post
Creative, are you saying your kitchen is basically refrigerator cold? If so I'd package it up and freeze it. If it's warmer than a fridge, I'd bring it back up to a boil at least before freezing but frankly I'd still use it as long as no one in your household is immune compromised or at risk, i.e. very young or very old.
See my post #10 page 1...fully answered there. "Most kitchens" is a rough guage and did not apply to my kitchen yesterday....explained in that post. Also if you read the posts before yours you will see that I have had the discussion re. temperatures. My kitchen was definitely nowhere near the required 60oC for bacteria to multiply.

Well it is too late now to bring it back to the boil since I mentioned I put it in the freezer. I fully intend to use it even though I am in my 60s - I shall just boil it. Boiling will kill any bacteria...assuming it was able to multiply in the first place in a cool kitchen.
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by creative View Post
I did describe my kitchen as cool. This is where common sense is valuable i.e. not blindly abiding by the text book. Maybe most kitchens = with usual amounts of cooking, e.g. grilling and baking etc. I said COOL for a reason, notably, I had made the stock and hadn't used the cooker at all until the evening. Then, the only thing I made (i.e. using heat) was a simple chicken risotto i.e. not using either the grill or the oven.
Your COOL kitchen is not COLD enough to keep bacteria from multiplying. And though boiling it MAY kill the bacteria, it WILL NOT have any effect on the TOXINS that bacteria EXCRETE as a byproduct of reproduction.

Sorry for my error. As jennyema said, bacteria multiply rapidly between 40 and 140 Fahrenheit. You can do the conversion to Celsius. But if you prefer to ignore the guidelines, then I don't understand why you ask for advice.

Hope this helps
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:17 PM   #14
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My kitchen was definitely nowhere near the required 60oC for bacteria to multiply.
Just to be super clear, for others who might read this thread, bacteria are killed at 140F/60C and above. They multiply rapidly between 40 and 140F.
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:29 PM   #15
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...My kitchen must be below 60oc....I am currently in my warm living room and it is still only registering 22oc so 60oc sounds excessively hot!...
The unsafe temperature range is between 4 Celsius and 60 Celsius. Unless your kitchen is colder than 4 Celsius, your stock was left in an unsafe temperature range all night.

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I did describe my kitchen as cool...
"cool" depends very much on one's own personal comfort level. During the winter, when it's in the teens (Fahrenheit) and the wind is blowing faster than 20 miles an hour, we still set our house thermostat for our furnace at 67 degrees (roughly 19.5 Celsius). We find that "warm enough". 22 Celsius? I am just two Celsius degrees away from eyeing the "air conditioner" switch!
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:29 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by GotGarlic View Post
Your COOL kitchen is not COLD enough to keep bacteria from multiplying. And though boiling it MAY kill the bacteria, it WILL NOT have any effect on the TOXINS that bacteria EXCRETE as a byproduct of reproduction.

Sorry for my error. As jennyema said, bacteria multiply rapidly between 40 and 140 Fahrenheit. You can do the conversion to Celsius. But if you prefer to ignore the guidelines, then I don't understand why you ask for advice.

Hope this helps
Huh? What's going on? You are now confusing me now ....are you backtracking from your original reply whereby you said "If your kitchen is below 60C, it's probably all right."

That is what I have been basing my responses too.

The guidelines are just that ... GUIDELINES (not commandments!) i.e. allow room for assessment etc. I thought that was obvious.
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:40 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by creative View Post
Huh? What's going on? You are now confusing me now ....are you backtracking from your original reply whereby you said "If your kitchen is below 60C, it's probably all right."

That is what I have been basing my responses too.

The guidelines are just that ... GUIDELINES (not commandments!) i.e. allow room for assessment etc. I thought that was obvious.
You call it backtracking - unnecessarily derogatory - and I call it apologizing for an error. Yes. I meant "below 4C."

If you said your kitchen was at 45F - in the danger zone, but barely - I'd say okay, eat it. But to me, that's cold, not cool. Cool is 50s or 60s Fahrenheit. Right in the middle of the danger zone. So you assess and you decide.
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:57 PM   #18
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To reiterate the context.....this is not about leaving meat out to cool but just a liquid i.e. freshly made chicken stock. Chicken stock that was not just simmered but then brought to a rapid boil for some time in order to further reduce it and render it concentrated/gloopy.

The only other detail I forgot to mention - which may be significant - is that I am not talking about a great vat of stock...this long process of making this precious, good quality stock all managed to transfer into an empty plastic carton - the size of a coffee jar!

This is why it strikes me as advantageous and sensible to appraise this alongside the guidelines.

Thanks for those that have helped me make a decision. I have decided it is worth risking (just boiling it when I use it), so no further replies here are necessary.

(Incidentally, I was taking a bigger risk with eating the stew that I left out overnight - my original thread on this topic...the ONLY one other thread I might add! I am still here to tell the tale!)
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:59 PM   #19
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My kitchen's near 90F today. It's been a hot day today and I'm too cheap to turn on the AC.
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:02 PM   #20
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It is time for everyone to calm down. The question has been answered. She put the stock in the freezer. When she goes to use it, bringing it to a gentle boil will destroy any bacteria that may have had the chance to grow.

Cool kitchen, warm kitchen hot kitchen. It no longer matters. The stock is now in the freezer. Question asked and answered.
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