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Old 03-21-2005, 06:33 AM   #11
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QUOTE=aussie girl
Hi waaza, I have to dissagree again. Both stews and casseroles can have both meat and vegetables. As for the amount of fat, that is a personal choice, and not an integral part of any casserole/stew that I know of.


Stews are water-based dishes, casseroles tend to combine water and fat (from the cooking meat, which is usually tougher and fattier than normal, hence the prolonged cooking at lower temperatures. It is placed in an oven to cook evenly, and with a lid to preserve most of the water, as only fat would remain if uncovered.

Perhaps you need to re-re-read the method given, as its not until the end of the 3rd paragraph, the the dish is placed in the oven.

I have re-re-read the recipe. It says brown the meat and veg, layer in a dish (perhaps 15 minutes??) then place in an oven for 1 to 2 hours. Tell me 15 minutes is longer than 1 to 2 hours. However I would have to agree that three paragraphs are longer than two.

As to further my point in my previous post, I googled casserole/stew and found the following from this site:http://www.deliaonline.com/ingredien...0000001407.asp

Quoting - "We tend to lump together all recipes that are cooked in a pot, and call them casseroles. But strictly speaking, there is a difference. Stewing is done on top of a cooker with heat being applied directly to the underneath of the pot, while casseroling takes place inside the oven, with heat circulating all around the pot. In both cases the meat is cut up fairly small, and cooked in a liquid (stock, wine, water, cider or whatever)" end quote

as I think I said??

I also need to add that this recipe has traditionally been called 'Irish Stew' for many years, possibly hundreds. It was posted here in honour of St. Patricks Day. In keeping with that tradition, and celebrating with our fellow Irish people, I trust it will be continued to be called 'Irish Stew'.

No, this dish, as quoted, is not the way it has been cooked for hundreds of years, and as quoted is a casserole, not a stew. Irish stew is a stew, not a casserole, never has been, never will be. Therefore, IMOH, Ms Allen is wrong, however wonderderful people might think she is.

Someone on this forum was commenting on how the names have changed to mean just about anything. This is just another example. It is important we understand what we are talking about, to help following generations understand the basics of cooking.
If Ms Allen wants to change the way she makes Irish stew, that is, of course, up to her, but from this thread, it seems that it is all too easy to accept changes (IMHO for the worst) without understanding the basics. What should have been done (again, IMHO) would be for Ms Allen to say, this is my version of the age-old Irish stew recipe, cooked as a casserole. Then I would be satisfied. It seems that too many cooks are pressurised into coming up with something new, and tend to forget the basics. I'm firmly in the Rick Stein camp here, get the basics right first.
cheers
Waaza
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:51 AM   #12
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I think the fact that I attributed the recipe - and used Mrs Allen's description is a simple enough concept. I did not change the name of the dish - I used the name that SHE used for the dish. Are you saying that in the whole of Ireland there are not at least a hundred slightly 'different' ways of cooking the same dish which each version calls 'Irish Stew'? Because there are probably as many ways of cooking Scots dishes like Cullen skink as there are families in Scotland... My stovies recipe is different to my cousin's - and hers is different to her sisters... Doesn't mean that they are wrong to call the dish stovies, does it?

Nitpicking over 'stew' or 'casserole' is taking all the interest and joy out of comparing recipes.
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:24 AM   #13
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your quoting is not at fault, just a start for discussion.
The whole point to my post is to point out that Ms Allen has changed a recipe without qualifying what she has done, and why. It would be very easy for the novice or un-informed to now look at this recipe and assume that this is the way to cook Irish stew. I have pointed out that it looks more like a casserole than a stew, and have outlined what I think the differences are. If cooks continually changed recipes (as is their right and purpose in life, so it would seem) without qualifying why and what has been done, we may lose the learning and experience of all that went before.
I have to agree that cooking is dynamic, and ever changing, and for those who know what they are doing, can broaden the culinary art. But all too often things are changed for the worse, and unfortunately, can all-too-easily be adopted as the norm.
As for slight variations, I see no real problems, as long as the essence and priciples are observed and preserved. But all too often one whinces at what our fellow cooks throw up (I use the word 'throw' intentionally) because of ignorance and the unwillingness to observe the basics.
And if Aussie girl would refer to Escoffier's 'Ma Cuisine' she will observe that nearly all his casseroles only use butter/fat as the cooking medium, though I suppose today it will be argued that a 'casserole' is anything cooked in casserole dish, 'cause that's what it's for.
cheers
Waaza
I'm prepared to leave it there, and get back to the enjoyment
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Old 03-21-2005, 09:12 AM   #14
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People like Darina Allen are not 'my fellow cooks'... I'm not a professional cook, I'm just someone who loves cooking for friends and family and enjoys going to courses at cookery schools around the UK and Europe. I'd never put myself in the same category as any of the chefs whose courses I've attended (including Rick Stein).
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Old 03-21-2005, 09:21 AM   #15
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C'mon people, this is one of the reasons we lost our other forums . Stew or casserole, I make what I make and call it what I want. As for the novices, if they make"Irish Stew" and enjoy it with friends, then it's Irish Stew.

Please let it go.
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Old 03-21-2005, 09:43 AM   #16
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I'm sorry? What other 'forums'?

I'm sorry.... I hadn't realised that posters are not allowed to take issue with the views of others on here.
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Old 03-21-2005, 09:53 AM   #17
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No matter what it is called, the end result is that you will have a delicious meal. You could call it fried chicken for all I care, it would not change the taste and isn't that what really matters?

Ishbel, as usual you have posted a wonderful recipe and if I can convince my DW to try lamb again that I will certainly be making this stew recipe.
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Old 03-21-2005, 09:58 AM   #18
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Old 03-21-2005, 10:01 AM   #19
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LOL that would not give me enough time to come on this board and hang out with all of you
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:00 PM   #20
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Wink peace offering

in for a penny, kissy kissy.

and here's a favourite recipe of mine as a peace offering. It really works.

Panda pasanda Waaza 2001
Please copy all without changing, thanks.

Prepare a spice mix of:
2 inches of Chinese cinnamon (cassia), 4 Chinese black cardamoms, 12 black peppercorns, 1 tsp black cumin seed, half tsp nigella seeds. Roast in a dry pan until smoking, then cool and grind to medium, and halve the mix.
Add half to 4 tbsp full fat yoghurt, 1 tbsp ground almonds, 3 cloves of garlic with 1 inch fresh root ginger (both pureed), 2 smoked chillies (to taste) and 1 tsp black salt. Mix thoroughly.
Add 675g panda breasts, cut into chunks the size of chicken breasts (or substitute mix of chicken and ostrich). Marinate for 24 hours in the fridge.
Heat 5 tbsp oil in a large pan, fry 3 medium grade 2 onions cut into fine dice for 20 minutes on medium heat until golden, but not browned. Add the other half of the spice mix, and fry for 5 minutes until the spice flavours have been extracted. Throw in the marinated panda breasts (or alternatives), and cook on medium until lightly browned and just cooked through (the yoghurt will have dried off by this stage).
Mix in two chopped fresh green chillies, 2 tbsp Chinese parsley (cilantro!) and pour over 120 ml double cream. Stir and bring just to the boil. It is ready.
Serve with plenty of rice with either Siberian ginseng or bamboo shoots added, as available.
Enjoy
Waaza
ps served this many times to many people, there is usually at least 3 minutes of silence before smiles start appearing !!
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