Haggis
Sous Chef
The onion 'piquet' (or 'piqué') is an onion with a thin cut in it in which a bay leaf is inserted and then cloves studded into the surface.
Bechamel sauce help!
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The onion 'piquet' (or 'piqué') is an onion with a thin cut in it in which a bay leaf is inserted and then cloves studded into the surface.
BigDog
Head Chef
Haggis said:
Ah, so said recipe would require the onion piquet to be added once all ingredients were added to simmer for flavor, yes?
Also, how long and in what manner can bechamel be stored?
Haggis
Sous Chef
Got it in one BigDog.
If not using it straigtaway I would cool it down in an icebath (a sauce with a lot of body such as bechamel will retain heat for a long time, it is not sufficient to cool it down in the fridge) stirring it from time to time until it reached a low enough temperature to be transferred to the fridge (tightly covered of course)
Additionally you might want to cut out a piece of waxed paper the same shape as the storage container to place right on top of the bechamel sauce as it prevent a skin from forming on it (or you could use plastic wrap and place it on the surface of the sauce as well as brining it over the sides, this will do the same thing).
As for how it can be stored I'm unsure. I go by the school of thought that if it looks good (no mould, discolouration, splitting), smells good and a small amount tastes good then its allright.
Constance
Master Chef
Bechamel Sauce and White Sauce are the same thing. When I first got interested in cooking, that's the first thing my Grandma Snarr taught me to make. She told me that once I learned to make a good white sauce, I could make all kinds of sauces and gravies. We didn't know the word "roux" up here in Illinois back then, but the method is generally the same.
For a basic white sauce, I use 2 tbls butter to 2 tbls flour to 2 cups liquid.
Pour milk into measuring cup and keep handy. Melt the butter in the sauce-pan over med heat, stir in the flour, and remove from heat. Slowly stir in milk, a little at a time, working out any lumps until mixture is smooth. Put back on med/high heat, and let cook, stirring a bit, until mixture starts to bubble. Turn heat back to medium, and let cook until thickened, stirring constantly. If you want to add cheese, add when mixture starts bubbling. This is a good time to add any seasonings, too.
You can adapt this recipe to gravies (use the meat fat in the pan, and add water or broth), other sauces (imagine using chicken broth instead of milk), any dish that calls for a roux (just bigger amounts; 1 cup oil to one cup flour, browned, to 2 quarts broth), or as a thickening agent for soup. You can saute onions, leeks, garlic, whatever, in the butter, then add the flour and proceed for there.
You can render out bacon, and use the bacon grease in place of the butter. This is how I start out my potato soup. I saute my sliced leeks and sometimes a bit of grated carrot in the bacon grease before I add the flour.
When I find a recipe with a French style sauce, that uses cream or lots of butter as a thickening agent, I convert it to my flour-based sauce. I like the taste better, and it saves a lot of calories.
For a basic white sauce, I use 2 tbls butter to 2 tbls flour to 2 cups liquid.
Pour milk into measuring cup and keep handy. Melt the butter in the sauce-pan over med heat, stir in the flour, and remove from heat. Slowly stir in milk, a little at a time, working out any lumps until mixture is smooth. Put back on med/high heat, and let cook, stirring a bit, until mixture starts to bubble. Turn heat back to medium, and let cook until thickened, stirring constantly. If you want to add cheese, add when mixture starts bubbling. This is a good time to add any seasonings, too.
You can adapt this recipe to gravies (use the meat fat in the pan, and add water or broth), other sauces (imagine using chicken broth instead of milk), any dish that calls for a roux (just bigger amounts; 1 cup oil to one cup flour, browned, to 2 quarts broth), or as a thickening agent for soup. You can saute onions, leeks, garlic, whatever, in the butter, then add the flour and proceed for there.
You can render out bacon, and use the bacon grease in place of the butter. This is how I start out my potato soup. I saute my sliced leeks and sometimes a bit of grated carrot in the bacon grease before I add the flour.
When I find a recipe with a French style sauce, that uses cream or lots of butter as a thickening agent, I convert it to my flour-based sauce. I like the taste better, and it saves a lot of calories.
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BigDog
Head Chef
Haggis said:
Anyone else on storing length. The wax paper makes sense, to prevent the skin stuff.
The recipe I have uses a gallon of milk, so the recipe I have makes a ton. My Cannelloni recipe only requires about a cup. So, there will be a ton of leftover sauce!
Haggis
Sous Chef
Why not scale the recipe down?
BigDog
Head Chef
Haggis said:
Didn't think of that. Should be easy enough. Just have to remember how to convert ounces to tbsp/tsp.
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
Dog:
1 or 2 TB (depending on how thick you want it) each of fat and flour will thicken a cup of milk. You can take it from there.
1 or 2 TB (depending on how thick you want it) each of fat and flour will thicken a cup of milk. You can take it from there.
Hopz
Senior Cook
definately cool milk...
also it will get thicker after it cools... do not overshoot your objective.
also it will get thicker after it cools... do not overshoot your objective.
it is supposed to be a bland sauce...white sauce...because it is the basis for so much else ... a cheese sauce, a savory sauce, etc... the is the mother suace that so many recipes substitute cream of something soup for...because it is the basis of those soups too.
1tbsp butter melted, slightly bubbling
1tbspn flour, wisked in and cooked while wisking till smooth (about 1 minute or a bit more)
1 cup whole milk slowly wisked in and brought to a simmer at which point it will thicken ... cook for a few minutes while wisking to keep it smooth.
now you can flavor with herbs, cheese, savories like mushrooms, etc.
nutmeg is pretty normal for a northern Italian Lasagne.
1tbsp butter melted, slightly bubbling
1tbspn flour, wisked in and cooked while wisking till smooth (about 1 minute or a bit more)
1 cup whole milk slowly wisked in and brought to a simmer at which point it will thicken ... cook for a few minutes while wisking to keep it smooth.
now you can flavor with herbs, cheese, savories like mushrooms, etc.
nutmeg is pretty normal for a northern Italian Lasagne.
Would margarine work for a white sauce in place of butter, and if so, what difference would it make in the quality of the sauce?
Also, I can't seem to find UNSALTED butter in the store. Can salted butter be substituted instead in any recipe (cooking or baking) if I"m careful not to over salt?
Thanks, Gary
Also, I can't seem to find UNSALTED butter in the store. Can salted butter be substituted instead in any recipe (cooking or baking) if I"m careful not to over salt?
Thanks, Gary
I would not use margerine because of the taste difference. (you could use any oil, but butter has the flavor you want.) You can use salted butter, just taste before seasoning the sauce.
goodgiver
Senior Cook
White Sauce
After making your white sauce recipe can I then add chipped beef for chipped beef gravy. The amount you give, will that be enough to serve 10 people chipped beef gravy over waffles? Also should I heat the milk first or add it cold to the roux. Emeril says to use cold milk, someone else says to heat the milk first boy am I confused.
After making your white sauce recipe can I then add chipped beef for chipped beef gravy. The amount you give, will that be enough to serve 10 people chipped beef gravy over waffles? Also should I heat the milk first or add it cold to the roux. Emeril says to use cold milk, someone else says to heat the milk first boy am I confused.
kitchenelf said:I'm not sure what you are doing but here is just a basic recipe that should always turn out.
6 tablespoons butter
5 tablespoons all-purpose flour
3 cups milk
Salt and pepper to taste
Pinch of nutmeg (optional)
Melt the butter in a medium sauce pan over medium heat. Stir in the flour, being sure to combine it with the butter very well, to make a roux. If the roux doesn't appear to be thick enough add 1/2 tsp more flour. If it seems too dry add a small amount of butter, 1/2 TBS or less. Let the roux cook, stirring constantly, for about 3 minutes. Do not let it darken. Gradually add the milk, about 1/2 cup at a time, whisking or stirring vigorously to incorporate. Cook over medium-low heat, stirring often, until thickened and just starting to boil, about 15 to 20 minutes will be required. Add the salt, pepper and nutmeg.
By omitting the nutmeg you have a basic white sauce.
From here you can add your favorite cheeses (about 2 - 2 1/2 cups) - our favorite is Fontina and cheddar. Once cheeses are melted stir in cooked macaroni and eat it with child-like reckless abandon!
goodgiver
Senior Cook
White Sauce
How can a person have over 9800 posts and have never made a white suace ?
How can a person have over 9800 posts and have never made a white suace ?
GB said:
a few more pointers for charlie d:
- it sounds like all you need is some practice. if you're having problems with lumping and burning, there's no point in bothering with butter and milk or cream.
make up a large batch of roux using just vegetable shortening or even oil and flour, say 1/2 or even 1 cup each of shortening and flour. cook it for a few minutes, let it cool somewhat, then put in tupperware and throw it into the fridge.
now you can practice with both methods: what is in the pan, either roux or liquid is hot, whatever you're adding (again, either roux or liquid) is cold.
have some cold or room temp. water at hand & heat up a couple of tablespoons of roux in a pan until it starts to bubble. whisk in say 1/2 cup or more cold water and keep whisking while it starts to thicken, being sure to contact all of the bottom and sides of your pan. any parts of the pan in which the sauce is not moving will lead to burning and clumping. as the sauce thickens up and starts to get too thick, add more cold water. again, whisk thoroughly and vigorously. after this point, it should be getting to the point where you can add all of the rest of the liquid if you're using a recipe or add more liquid little by little, whisking all the time, until it's the consistency you want.
- the other method is to have some cold roux at hand and your liquid (water for practice) at a low simmer. for a couple of cups water, crumble in a couple of tablespoons of roux and keep whisking until it's not thickening any more. repeat if you need to.
either way, when you start using stock (for veloute) or milk/cream (for bechamel), you'll need to continue cooking for another 5 + minutes until it doesn't taste "floury".
another point not mentioned so far is your heat/ pan relationship. if you're using a very thin pan on top of an electric stove, you'll have to be very careful to stir vigourously and scrape all of the bottom of the pan. electric stoves acheive a low setting simply by being on at less frequent intervals, but when they are on, they are extremely hot and can scorch a sauce quite quickly. don't hesitate to pull the pan off the heat and whisk for a while. you'll have better results using a very thick-bottomed pan over a low heat. if all you have are thin pans and electric stove, you can purchase a heat pad/deflector or simply use the top or bottom of a large coffee can to place directly on your stove heating element so that your pan doesn't come in direct contact with the heat.
hope this helps
- it sounds like all you need is some practice. if you're having problems with lumping and burning, there's no point in bothering with butter and milk or cream.
make up a large batch of roux using just vegetable shortening or even oil and flour, say 1/2 or even 1 cup each of shortening and flour. cook it for a few minutes, let it cool somewhat, then put in tupperware and throw it into the fridge.
now you can practice with both methods: what is in the pan, either roux or liquid is hot, whatever you're adding (again, either roux or liquid) is cold.
have some cold or room temp. water at hand & heat up a couple of tablespoons of roux in a pan until it starts to bubble. whisk in say 1/2 cup or more cold water and keep whisking while it starts to thicken, being sure to contact all of the bottom and sides of your pan. any parts of the pan in which the sauce is not moving will lead to burning and clumping. as the sauce thickens up and starts to get too thick, add more cold water. again, whisk thoroughly and vigorously. after this point, it should be getting to the point where you can add all of the rest of the liquid if you're using a recipe or add more liquid little by little, whisking all the time, until it's the consistency you want.
- the other method is to have some cold roux at hand and your liquid (water for practice) at a low simmer. for a couple of cups water, crumble in a couple of tablespoons of roux and keep whisking until it's not thickening any more. repeat if you need to.
either way, when you start using stock (for veloute) or milk/cream (for bechamel), you'll need to continue cooking for another 5 + minutes until it doesn't taste "floury".
another point not mentioned so far is your heat/ pan relationship. if you're using a very thin pan on top of an electric stove, you'll have to be very careful to stir vigourously and scrape all of the bottom of the pan. electric stoves acheive a low setting simply by being on at less frequent intervals, but when they are on, they are extremely hot and can scorch a sauce quite quickly. don't hesitate to pull the pan off the heat and whisk for a while. you'll have better results using a very thick-bottomed pan over a low heat. if all you have are thin pans and electric stove, you can purchase a heat pad/deflector or simply use the top or bottom of a large coffee can to place directly on your stove heating element so that your pan doesn't come in direct contact with the heat.
hope this helps
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OP
OP
CharlieD
Chef Extraordinaire
Béchamel sauce :
Three years latter I still have not had an opportunity to taste it outside my house. So even though I've been making this successfully for a while now, I am not sure if what I make is actually real Béchamel sauce. One of this days I need to venture out of my little hole caled St. Paul to some big city and try the real stuff.
Three years latter I still have not had an opportunity to taste it outside my house. So even though I've been making this successfully for a while now, I am not sure if what I make is actually real Béchamel sauce. One of this days I need to venture out of my little hole caled St. Paul to some big city and try the real stuff.
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