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Old 03-28-2005, 09:14 AM   #11
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Thanks for coming in and giving me your two cents Michael, this site has much more activity than expected, and some class acts.... Okay so i'm getting alot of great information and tonight i'm going to make the sauce again.... This time with the canned whole tomatoes. I'm going to use San Marzano or Muir Glen whole tomatoes this time. Couple basic questions about the sauce....

I've been making my sauce in a skillet type thing, it seems my best pan i have for it.. it's like 2 inches deep, and 12 inches around, just a large nonstick skillet....This recipe with the meat and tomatoes included, generally fills it to the top, and reduces to about half full.

Is there some ideal pan i can get to cook my sauce? I know even less about cookware than i do about cooking...

I've been using a garlic press for my garlic, should i avoid this while i sautee the garlic for my sauce? It seems the smaller particles of garlic from the press would burn easily, should i chop it up instead? Slices or chops?

Should i eliminate the tomato paste since i'm opting for using 2 cans of whole tomatoes?

I'm going to put in some dried porcini mushrooms, at what stage of the sauce should these be added?
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Old 03-28-2005, 09:45 AM   #12
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Ok here's mine....... BTW marinara is without meat [sauce] a sauce with meat is gravy.


MY GRAVY

1 1/4 - 1 1/2 meatloaf mix ie;beef, pork and veal
1 1/2 c. milk
1 med onion chopped
garlic to taste
3-5 tbsp tomato paste
2 lg cans tomatoes of choice
1 med can tomato sauce
mushrooms [optional]
1/2 c. red wine [optional]
basil, oregano and flatleaf parsley to taste
S+P to taste
curry powder [scant/optional]
red pepper flakes to taste
EVOO


1...place meat and milk in large sauce pot cook over med heat breaking up large peices till all milk is gone, remove from pot, set aside. [milk is a tenderizer, meat will melt in your mouth]

2...rinse out sauce pot, add EVOO, garlic and onions, saute over med-low heat till onions are clear. Raise heat to med add tomato PASTE cook, stirring consantly till it turns a dark brick color.
[ start with cold oil to draw out flavors of any aromatic ie; herbs, garlic veggies ect.... toasting paste builds the "layers of flavor" that everyone talks about]

3...Add in the rest of ingrediants and meat back into the pot. Lower heat simmer [covered for a thinner sauce or uncovered for a thicker one] for 2-4 hours till ya can't stand it any more. Serve over pasta of choice.


4...EAT AND ENJOY!!!


ADD INS.......

A small veal shank simmered for the full 4 hours, removed and meat shredded add back in.

Sausages

Meatballs

Bell peppers [saute seperatly add in with tomatoes]
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Old 03-28-2005, 09:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylegsbig
Thanks for coming in and giving me your two cents Michael, this site has much more activity than expected, and some class acts.... Okay so i'm getting alot of great information and tonight i'm going to make the sauce again.... This time with the canned whole tomatoes. I'm going to use San Marzano or Muir Glen whole tomatoes this time. Couple basic questions about the sauce....

I've been making my sauce in a skillet type thing, it seems my best pan i have for it.. it's like 2 inches deep, and 12 inches around, just a large nonstick skillet....This recipe with the meat and tomatoes included, generally fills it to the top, and reduces to about half full.

Is there some ideal pan i can get to cook my sauce? I know even less about cookware than i do about cooking...

I've been using a garlic press for my garlic, should i avoid this while i sautee the garlic for my sauce? It seems the smaller particles of garlic from the press would burn easily, should i chop it up instead? Slices or chops?

Should i eliminate the tomato paste since i'm opting for using 2 cans of whole tomatoes?

I'm going to put in some dried porcini mushrooms, at what stage of the sauce should these be added?



ok...Use a pot like you would for soup deeper is good. Heavier is better. NO STAINLESS STEEL for tomato products.

No rules for garlic more is better. Smaller pieces will be more potent like in the press, slices will burn faster so watch them closely.

Use the paste just less of it. It's function is a thickener. Use the method in my prior post.

Soak mushrooms in hot water for 20-30 mins. Add mushrooms when you would add the tomatoes, strain liquid thru paper towels, add to liquid the pot. Good flavor there my friend don't waste it. [strain thru paper towel in case there is sand or other sediments you don't want to eat.]

Make sure you tell us how it turns out.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishedTopaz
ok...Use a pot like you would for soup deeper is good. Heavier is better. NO STAINLESS STEEL for tomato products.

No rules for garlic more is better. Smaller pieces will be more potent like in the press, slices will burn faster so watch them closely.

Use the paste just less of it. It's function is a thickener. Use the method in my prior post.

Soak mushrooms in hot water for 20-30 mins. Add mushrooms when you would add the tomatoes, strain liquid thru paper towels, add to liquid the pot. Good flavor there my friend don't waste it. [strain thru paper towel in case there is sand or other sediments you don't want to eat.]

Make sure you tell us how it turns out.
Okay, strain through paper towel, can you describe this?
Total kitchen noob here never strained.

As for your tomato paste method, another poster echoed your sentiment, and the whole layer of flavor sounds very interesting.. i will definitely try it out! As for the garlic, i'm just going to finely chop it.

My garlic press is a piece of crap, I just cant visualize the onions getting clear without the garlic burning. I must have really screwed it up last time, either that or my stove burns hot. I'm going to simmer the garlic and onions at a 2 this time. I'm going to have wine with dinner, a good Shiraz or a Merlot, rosemount estates.

Would a kick of red wine be good for this sauce? It seems with the mushrooms it would be a good taste. If i do add some red wine, At what stage of cooking should i add it in? BTW - Thanks again for all the info. My girlfriend is studying the thread as well, as we love good spaghetti...
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckytom
i use the same frying pan to brown everything, starting with the garlic on medium low, then onions and other veggies that can be caramelized on medium high, then any meats on high. then i deglaze the pan with some red wine in between each step, scraping up the brown bits. bring the wine to a boil, scrape, and add to the sauce.
if i can think of anyting else, i'll add it later...
This portion really interests me as it outlines a basic technique that i had never thought to use.

I like the concept of using red wine between each ingredient added

Cooking each ingredient in stages, and using some red wine. I can try to visualize what Deglaze means using context clues, but it's still vague. Also, i don't understand how you escalate the heat on the pan, up to medium high, and then high, without burning the garlic and onions?


Also, never cooked ground beef on high, i usually cook it at medium, it seems like it would burn. Later i will experiment with diff meats, but tonight i'm going to use what i know. Don't want to add too many changes and ruin dinner. I had the sauce pretty consistent and don't want to change too many variables at once, and cause a disaster
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:46 AM   #16
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Lots of good advice so far.

Also consider adding green peppers and/or crimini mushrooms.

I like a little oregano and thyme in the sauce along with the basil.

I like to add the tomato paste to the onions and cook it for a while. It changes the flavor of the tomato paste a bit.

Consider adding a bit of wine as well. Wine does a lot to release alcohol soluble flavor components from tomato based sauces.

Also, consider adding some pork neck bones or chicken wings to the sauce (if you can plan on cooking it for a couple of hours). These will add a richer meat flavor than the hamburg. Italian sausages are another meat possibility. They should be browned and most fo the fat drained off before add them to the sauce.

I'm not suggesting you do all of this to one sauce, although you could. Just offering different options for you to try.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M.
Lots of good advice so far.

Also consider adding green peppers and/or crimini mushrooms.

I like a little oregano and thyme in the sauce along with the basil.

I like to add the tomato paste to the onions and cook it for a while. It changes the flavor of the tomato paste a bit.

Consider adding a bit of wine as well. Wine does a lot to release alcohol soluble flavor components from tomato based sauces.

Also, consider adding some pork neck bones or chicken wings to the sauce (if you can plan on cooking it for a couple of hours). These will add a richer meat flavor than the hamburg. Italian sausages are another meat possibility. They should be browned and most fo the fat drained off before add them to the sauce.

I'm not suggesting you do all of this to one sauce, although you could. Just offering different options for you to try.
Thanks for your feedback. I'm going to add a pepper in again this time, screw it. Last time i told myself not as much veggies, because they had a crunch to them that i did not like. But i'm going to chop them finer and cook them longer and they should be fine. The green pepper adds some good flavor. I'm very optimistic about how this sauce is going to turn out.
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Old 03-28-2005, 11:05 AM   #18
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Easy enough on straining. You have a collander I assume for the pasta, yes? Place collander in a bowl line with 1 layer of paper towels, pour soaking liquid into collander, throw away paper towels, use the liquid left in the bowl. Done deal.

BTW....that deglazing with wine between elements is a great idea! Take it from someone who has been cooking for years. Use the same wine you are drinking.
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Old 03-28-2005, 11:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishedTopaz
Easy enough on straining. You have a collander I assume for the pasta, yes? Place collander in a bowl line with 1 layer of paper towels, pour soaking liquid into collander, throw away paper towels, use the liquid left in the bowl. Done deal.

BTW....that deglazing with wine between elements is a great idea! Take it from someone who has been cooking for years. Use the same wine you are drinking.
In what order would you do the elements my friend, and would you do them in the same pan as he suggested? Here are my final elements before i add the whole tomatoes

Ground Beef
Finely Chopped Onion
Finely Chopped Garlic
Finely Chopped Green bellpepper
Porcini Mushrooms
1.25 lb Ground Beef

this is in no particular order... I see someone mentioned to do the pepper in a different pan, before, i would just throw the pepper and onion in together, at the same time....dont know if thats a good idea anymore

I gather to add the paste last, before i put the whole tomatoes....
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Old 03-28-2005, 01:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylegsbig
In what order would you do the elements my friend, and would you do them in the same pan as he suggested? Here are my final elements before i add the whole tomatoes

Ground Beef
Finely Chopped Onion
Finely Chopped Garlic
Finely Chopped Green bellpepper
Porcini Mushrooms
1.25 lb Ground Beef

this is in no particular order... I see someone mentioned to do the pepper in a different pan, before, i would just throw the pepper and onion in together, at the same time....dont know if thats a good idea anymore

I gather to add the paste last, before i put the whole tomatoes....
Okie dokie.....Cook beef IN MILK [1 1/4cups]till all milk is gone breaking up big pieces. remove from pot, peppers, onions and garlic 7-10 mins. [low heat EVOO] paste med heat [toasting as per prior post] canned tomatoes and porcini lower heat long simmer. [Dried or fresh??? you didn't say and it would make some [not much] difference.] Best of luck!
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