Tomato sauce vs Red gravy

[mmyap]

I only recently heard there was something called "red gravy" or sometimes "sunday gravy." I thought perhaps it was a regional thing. Sauce or gravy, either way, it's delicious. It's another opportunity to google something foodie. =o)

 

[Addie]

I only recently heard there was something called "red gravy" or sometimes "sunday gravy." I thought perhaps it was a regional thing. Sauce or gravy, either way, it's delicious. It's another opportunity to google something foodie. =o)

For the average Non-Italian American, it is spagetti sauce. For an Italian family, it is Sunday gravy. Started early on Sunday morning, put on a very low simmer and everyone goes off to Sunday Mass. There is usually one member of the family that goes to six o'clock Mass in the morning. That person stays home and gives the pot a stir every so often while everyone else is at Mass. You can bet that person does not forget to stir. Not unless they want the wrath of the cook on their head all day. It is usually the male of the household who goes to early Mass. Because it is a short service. No sermon. And he has filled his religious obligation. Keeps the wife off his back.

 

[pacanis]

As a somewhat OCD editor and former computer desktop support specialist, I have to disagree It's much easier to discuss things when we all use the same vocabulary as much as possible. Can't tell you how many times I was trying to troubleshoot a computer problem and people would say, well that's just what I like to call it. PITA.

I couldn't agree more... from the other side of course.
I can't tell you how many times I've described a problem to someone who plays dumb because I'm not versed in their field of work. A real pain in the butt. Like they don't understand layman's terms they probably grew up with
It's pretty much a form of belittling to make themselves seem more important IMO, but it has broadened my own vocabulary in other folks' line of work.

 

[GotGarlic]

I do agree that computerese should be more standard, it is a young science. However, Cooking has been around since the dawn of time and many descriptions have been used for so long it's almost impossible to get a consensus on what to call a technique, etc.

What I meant is that computerese *is* more standard; it's just that many people who use them don't learn the proper names for things. And for some reason, many people think they know more than they actually do

I think standardizing terms and techniques is the reason Escoffier wrote his book and is why we have cooking schools now - they really haven't been around all that long. But their purpose is to standardize a curriculum so if a cook/chef goes from one place to another, whoever hires them can be confident they have a specific base of knowledge. That doesn't mean there won't always be exceptions and regional variations.

I guarantee you, though, if I were the editor of a cookbook or magazine, there would be standard definitions for it

 

[GotGarlic]

I couldn't agree more... from the other side of course.
I can't tell you how many times I've described a problem to someone who plays dumb because I'm not versed in their field of work. A real pain in the butt. Like they don't understand layman's terms they probably grew up with
It's pretty much a form of belittling to make themselves seem more important IMO, but it has broadened my own vocabulary in other folks' line of work.

I can see how it might seem that way from your side. From my side, though, when I was doing that kind of work, there might be days where I worked with five different people and they all called the same thing something different. So trying to figure out what they were talking about while trying not to make them feel dumb was challenging.

 

[Addie]

I couldn't agree more... from the other side of course.
I can't tell you how many times I've described a problem to someone who plays dumb because I'm not versed in their field of work. A real pain in the butt. Like they don't understand layman's terms they probably grew up with
It's pretty much a form of belittling to make themselves seem more important IMO, but it has broadened my own vocabulary in other folks' line of work.

A sanitary engineer is still a trash collector. A very necessary occupation that is needed even without the fancy title.

 

[PrincessFiona60]

What I meant is that computerese *is* more standard; it's just that many people who use them don't learn the proper names for things. And for some reason, many people think they know more than they actually do

I think standardizing terms and techniques is the reason Escoffier wrote his book and is why we have cooking schools now - they really haven't been around all that long. But their purpose is to standardize a curriculum so if a cook/chef goes from one place to another, whoever hires them can be confident they have a specific base of knowledge. That doesn't mean there won't always be exceptions and regional variations.

I guarantee you, though, if I were the editor of a cookbook or magazine, there would be standard definitions for it

Granted, professionals in the job SHOULD have a specific definition, the name of something consistent between languages, etc.

That's the beauty of this site, we are NOT all professionals in the Food Industry. We are cooks, chefs, nurses, computer techs, teachers, mechanics, housewives, bakers, house husbands, young, old, fulltime workers and retirees. We are also from around the globe or our parents and grandparents were. Sometimes we can see the differences are regional or generational...makes life fun and interesting.

 

[Zhizara]

And then there's me and Paul Deen. We both say White Sauce. It's often regional. Whatever you call it, pass me some more.

 

[GotGarlic]

Granted, professionals in the job SHOULD have a specific definition, the name of something consistent between languages, etc.

That's the beauty of this site, we are NOT all professionals in the Food Industry. We are cooks, chefs, nurses, computer techs, teachers, mechanics, housewives, bakers, house husbands, young, old, fulltime workers and retirees. We are also from around the globe or our parents and grandparents were. Sometimes we can see the differences are regional or generational...makes life fun and interesting.

I agree - I didn't mean to imply we were all professionals. But part of learning about a topic involves learning its vocabulary. When new cooks come to the site asking what X means, I'm sure none of us would say, well, there's no consensus, so it doesn't matter what you call it. And I've said repeatedly that there will always be exceptions and variations. That doesn't mean there can be no definitions.

I really hope I'm not coming across in a negative way on this, and I don't think I'm expressing myself very well. I'll just blame it on the pain med and go watch TV for a while

 

[PrincessFiona60]

I agree - I didn't mean to imply we were all professionals. But part of learning about a topic involves learning its vocabulary. When new cooks come to the site asking what X means, I'm sure none of us would say, well, there's no consensus, so it doesn't matter what you call it. And I've said repeatedly that there will always be exceptions and variations. That doesn't mean there can be no definitions.

I really hope I'm not coming across in a negative way on this, and I don't think I'm expressing myself very well. I'll just blame it on the pain med and go watch TV for a while

You are not coming across as negative at all. Just a friendly discussion about how words are perceived. To my memory it was Kadesma that first used Red Gravy in a conversation and I was enchanted to find out what that was.

For me, tomato sauce is an ingredient for pasta sauces, etc. Red Gravy is a quaint description, regional and colloquial for a tomato based pasta sauce.

Like my Mom always said, "I don't care what you call me, just don't call me late for dinner."

 

[Andy M.]

I don't detect any negativity in this discussion at all.

However, I believe it is 100% the expert's responsibility to understand the customer.

I don't know what the computer repair person, doctor, auto mechanic, plumber, etc. knows. If did, I wouldn't need them. My job as a customer is to describe the problem. Their job as experts is to get the information they need and fix it. I'm sure it's quite difficult at times.

This discussion brings to mind one of the best jokes of all time. It's supposed to be a true story. If it is or isn't doesn't matter. It's a little dated but it's hilarious!


This is a true story from the WordPerfect helpline. Needless to say, the help desk employee was fired; however, he/she is currently suing the Word Perfect organization for "Termination without Cause."
Actual dialogue of a former WordPerfect Customer Support employee with a caller:
Customer Support: "Ridge Hall computer assistant; may I help you?"
Caller: "Yes, well, I'm having trouble with WordPerfect."
CS: "What sort of trouble?"
C: "Well, I was just typing along, and all of a sudden the words went away."
CS: "Went away?"
C: "They disappeared."
CS: "Hmm. So what does your screen look like now?"
C: "Nothing."
CS: "Nothing?"
C: "It's blank; it won't accept anything when I type."
CS: "Are you still in WordPerfect, or did you get out?"
C: "How do I tell?"
CS: "Can you see the C: prompt on the screen?"
C: "What's a sea-prompt?"
CS: "Never mind. Can you move the cursor around on the screen?"
C: "There isn't any cursor, I told you, it won't accept anything I type."
CS: "Does your monitor have a power indicator?"
C: "What's a monitor?"
CS: "It's the thing with the screen on it that looks like a TV. Does it have a little light that tells you when it's on?"
C: "I don't know."
CS: "Well, then look on the back of the monitor and find where the power cord goes into it. Can you see that?"
C: "Yes, I think so."
CS: "Great. Follow the cord to the plug, and tell me if it's plugged into the wall."
C: ".......Yes, it is."
CS: "When you were behind the monitor, did you notice that there were two cables plugged into the back of it, not just one?"
C: "No."
CS: "Well, there are. I need you to look back there again and find the other cable."
C: ".......Okay, here it is."
CS: "Follow it for me, and tell me if it's plugged securely into the back of your computer."
"I can't reach."
CS: "Uh huh. Well, can you see if it is?"
C: "No."
CS: "Even if you maybe put your knee on something and lean way over?"
C: "Oh, it's not because I don't have the right angle - it's because it's dark."
CS: "Dark?"
C: "Yes - the office light is off, and the only light I have is coming in from the window."
CS: "Well, turn on the office light then."
C: "I can't."
CS: "No? Why not?"
C: "Because there's a power outage."
CS: "A power... A power outage? Ah, Okay, we've got it licked now. Do you still have the boxes and manuals and packing stuff your computer came in?"
C: "Well, yes, I keep them in the closet."
CS: "Good. Go get them, and unplug your system and pack it up just like it was when you got it. Then take it back to the store you bought it from."
C: "Really? Is it that bad?"
CS: "Yes, I'm afraid it is."
C: "Well, all right then, I suppose. What do I tell them?"
CS: "Tell them you're too stupid to own a computer."

 

[PrincessFiona60]

LOL!!!

My Dad had lots of customers like that. He'd get there to fix it and find out it had become unplugged or the switch on the surge protector had been turned off.

 

[Dawgluver]

 

[no mayonnaise]

I don't detect any negativity in this discussion at all.

However, I believe it is 100% the expert's responsibility to understand the customer.

I don't know what the computer repair person, doctor, auto mechanic, plumber, etc. knows. If did, I wouldn't need them. My job as a customer is to describe the problem. Their job as experts is to get the information they need and fix it. I'm sure it's quite difficult at times.

I think that's a great way to get taken advantage of by less-than-reputable professionals.

In my opinion, the customer must do their due diligence in regards to the issue to be able to articulate the issue in order to get the best and quickest--not to mention most honest--service possible.

 

[Andy M.]

I think that's a great way to get taken advantage of by less-than-reputable professionals.

In my opinion, the customer must do their due diligence in regards to the issue to be able to articulate the issue in order to get the best and quickest--not to mention most honest--service possible.

What are you suggesting?

For example, what are you suggesting I do when I see a doctor when I have a pain in my shoulder? or

I see a mechanic because my car is making a strange noise.

 

[no mayonnaise]

What are you suggesting?

For example, what are you suggesting I do when I see a doctor when I have a pain in my shoulder? or

I see a mechanic because my car is making a strange noise.

Now that we've taken this thread way off-topic:
Oddly enough you're asking a senior pre-med student who's been a hobbyist car guy, having done all manner of work on many cars including paint/body, since my early teens. While that makes me neither a doctor nor a mechanic, I'm definitely not glib.

The first one depends on other factors. What type of pain? How did it come about? If it were my shoulder, I could answer these and do some research, then go from there before my appointment. When I go into the doctor, I can speak more in their terms to make diagnosis easier for them and make misdiagnosis less likely. In some instances, I'll have a solid idea of the pros and cons of treatment options to make a more informed decision if there are multiple treatment options available for the ailment. But this is highly variable so...

Car's making a noise? Research what makes that noise and what's needed to fix it. If it's not a DIY project, then going to a mechanic will result in you making sure you're not getting ripped off. Lots of shady mechanics out there taking advantage of people that come in with that exact complaint-- "My car's making a funny noise."

I also feel that the easier you make the job for the professional, whether it be a server at a restaurant or a TV salesman, the better job they are going to do and better service you are going to get.

 

[Addie]

So which is it? Tomato sauce, Sunday gravy, pasta sauce? Do we have a consensus that it is all of the above? Have we exhausted the subject yet? Could it be that the answer is regional?

 

[mmyap]

How about Mari-gravy-sunday sauce - red - doro?

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

"Country Gravy" is Bechemel sauce.

Yes, but typically the fat is bacon or sausage fat, not butter as in a classic Bechemel sauce. When chunks of cooked sausage are included, it becomes sausage gravy.

And for the record, anytime you purchase a canned product called tomato sauce, is will be seasoned. To get plain tomato in a can, purchase whole, canned tomato, tomato puree, crushed tomato, tomato paste,nor diced tomato. The nothing-but-salt added products have a brighter flavor, and are a better canvas on which to paint your own unique vision. It gives you more freedom, without having to deal with what someone in a corporate kitchen decides what tastes good.

As for tomato gravy, it refers, IMHO, to a seasoned, and thickened tomato sauce. All gravies are thickened, seasoned sauces, be they made of meat juices, or veggies. There are onion gravies, veggie gravies, meat gravies, etc.

I'd never heard of any kind of tomato sauce being called a gravy before becoming a part of DC. However, it makes sense. I think about the liver with tomato sauce my DW used to make. The tomato sauce is in all respects, a gravy.

I will continue to call tomato based sauces, sauce. It's the nomenclature I'm used to. It's what my family knows. After all, all gravies are some kind of sauce. But not all sauces are gravies.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[Steve Kroll]

I think standardizing terms and techniques is the reason Escoffier wrote his book and is why we have cooking schools now - they really haven't been around all that long. But their purpose is to standardize a curriculum so if a cook/chef goes from one place to another, whoever hires them can be confident they have a specific base of knowledge. That doesn't mean there won't always be exceptions and regional variations.

I guarantee you, though, if I were the editor of a cookbook or magazine, there would be standard definitions for it

The problem is that we're not discussing a definition or technique. We're talking about a name. Whether someone chooses to call it red gravy or tomato sauce or marinara is completely academic in my book.

Although I don't have a drop of Italian blood in me, I once spent the better part of three years eating Sunday dinners with an extended Italian family in Cicero, Illinois. In that entire time, not once did I ever hear it called "gravy." But if someone from a different region chooses to call it that, who am I to say they are wrong?

It's like arguing over Welsh Rarebit or Welsh Rabbit. Both names are commonly accepted and there is no consensus on which is correct. But either way, I know what you're referring to.