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Old 12-09-2012, 08:11 PM   #31
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I don't detect any negativity in this discussion at all.

However, I believe it is 100% the expert's responsibility to understand the customer.

I don't know what the computer repair person, doctor, auto mechanic, plumber, etc. knows. If did, I wouldn't need them. My job as a customer is to describe the problem. Their job as experts is to get the information they need and fix it. I'm sure it's quite difficult at times.

This discussion brings to mind one of the best jokes of all time. It's supposed to be a true story. If it is or isn't doesn't matter. It's a little dated but it's hilarious!


This is a true story from the WordPerfect helpline. Needless to say, the help desk employee was fired; however, he/she is currently suing the Word Perfect organization for "Termination without Cause."
Actual dialogue of a former WordPerfect Customer Support employee with a caller:
Customer Support: "Ridge Hall computer assistant; may I help you?"
Caller: "Yes, well, I'm having trouble with WordPerfect."
CS: "What sort of trouble?"
C: "Well, I was just typing along, and all of a sudden the words went away."
CS: "Went away?"
C: "They disappeared."
CS: "Hmm. So what does your screen look like now?"
C: "Nothing."
CS: "Nothing?"
C: "It's blank; it won't accept anything when I type."
CS: "Are you still in WordPerfect, or did you get out?"
C: "How do I tell?"
CS: "Can you see the C: prompt on the screen?"
C: "What's a sea-prompt?"
CS: "Never mind. Can you move the cursor around on the screen?"
C: "There isn't any cursor, I told you, it won't accept anything I type."
CS: "Does your monitor have a power indicator?"
C: "What's a monitor?"
CS: "It's the thing with the screen on it that looks like a TV. Does it have a little light that tells you when it's on?"
C: "I don't know."
CS: "Well, then look on the back of the monitor and find where the power cord goes into it. Can you see that?"
C: "Yes, I think so."
CS: "Great. Follow the cord to the plug, and tell me if it's plugged into the wall."
C: ".......Yes, it is."
CS: "When you were behind the monitor, did you notice that there were two cables plugged into the back of it, not just one?"
C: "No."
CS: "Well, there are. I need you to look back there again and find the other cable."
C: ".......Okay, here it is."
CS: "Follow it for me, and tell me if it's plugged securely into the back of your computer."
"I can't reach."
CS: "Uh huh. Well, can you see if it is?"
C: "No."
CS: "Even if you maybe put your knee on something and lean way over?"
C: "Oh, it's not because I don't have the right angle - it's because it's dark."
CS: "Dark?"
C: "Yes - the office light is off, and the only light I have is coming in from the window."
CS: "Well, turn on the office light then."
C: "I can't."
CS: "No? Why not?"
C: "Because there's a power outage."
CS: "A power... A power outage? Ah, Okay, we've got it licked now. Do you still have the boxes and manuals and packing stuff your computer came in?"
C: "Well, yes, I keep them in the closet."
CS: "Good. Go get them, and unplug your system and pack it up just like it was when you got it. Then take it back to the store you bought it from."
C: "Really? Is it that bad?"
CS: "Yes, I'm afraid it is."
C: "Well, all right then, I suppose. What do I tell them?"
CS: "Tell them you're too stupid to own a computer."
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:01 PM   #32
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LOL!!!

My Dad had lots of customers like that. He'd get there to fix it and find out it had become unplugged or the switch on the surge protector had been turned off.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:03 PM   #33
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:39 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
I don't detect any negativity in this discussion at all.

However, I believe it is 100% the expert's responsibility to understand the customer.

I don't know what the computer repair person, doctor, auto mechanic, plumber, etc. knows. If did, I wouldn't need them. My job as a customer is to describe the problem. Their job as experts is to get the information they need and fix it. I'm sure it's quite difficult at times.
I think that's a great way to get taken advantage of by less-than-reputable professionals.

In my opinion, the customer must do their due diligence in regards to the issue to be able to articulate the issue in order to get the best and quickest--not to mention most honest--service possible.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:52 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no mayonnaise View Post
I think that's a great way to get taken advantage of by less-than-reputable professionals.

In my opinion, the customer must do their due diligence in regards to the issue to be able to articulate the issue in order to get the best and quickest--not to mention most honest--service possible.
What are you suggesting?

For example, what are you suggesting I do when I see a doctor when I have a pain in my shoulder? or

I see a mechanic because my car is making a strange noise.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:12 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
What are you suggesting?

For example, what are you suggesting I do when I see a doctor when I have a pain in my shoulder? or

I see a mechanic because my car is making a strange noise.
Now that we've taken this thread way off-topic:
Oddly enough you're asking a senior pre-med student who's been a hobbyist car guy, having done all manner of work on many cars including paint/body, since my early teens. While that makes me neither a doctor nor a mechanic, I'm definitely not glib.

The first one depends on other factors. What type of pain? How did it come about? If it were my shoulder, I could answer these and do some research, then go from there before my appointment. When I go into the doctor, I can speak more in their terms to make diagnosis easier for them and make misdiagnosis less likely. In some instances, I'll have a solid idea of the pros and cons of treatment options to make a more informed decision if there are multiple treatment options available for the ailment. But this is highly variable so...

Car's making a noise? Research what makes that noise and what's needed to fix it. If it's not a DIY project, then going to a mechanic will result in you making sure you're not getting ripped off. Lots of shady mechanics out there taking advantage of people that come in with that exact complaint-- "My car's making a funny noise."

I also feel that the easier you make the job for the professional, whether it be a server at a restaurant or a TV salesman, the better job they are going to do and better service you are going to get.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:30 PM   #37
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So which is it? Tomato sauce, Sunday gravy, pasta sauce? Do we have a consensus that it is all of the above? Have we exhausted the subject yet? Could it be that the answer is regional?
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:36 PM   #38
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How about Mari-gravy-sunday sauce - red - doro?
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:31 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by jennyema View Post
"Country Gravy" is Bechemel sauce.
Yes, but typically the fat is bacon or sausage fat, not butter as in a classic Bechemel sauce. When chunks of cooked sausage are included, it becomes sausage gravy.

And for the record, anytime you purchase a canned product called tomato sauce, is will be seasoned. To get plain tomato in a can, purchase whole, canned tomato, tomato puree, crushed tomato, tomato paste,nor diced tomato. The nothing-but-salt added products have a brighter flavor, and are a better canvas on which to paint your own unique vision. It gives you more freedom, without having to deal with what someone in a corporate kitchen decides what tastes good.

As for tomato gravy, it refers, IMHO, to a seasoned, and thickened tomato sauce. All gravies are thickened, seasoned sauces, be they made of meat juices, or veggies. There are onion gravies, veggie gravies, meat gravies, etc.

I'd never heard of any kind of tomato sauce being called a gravy before becoming a part of DC. However, it makes sense. I think about the liver with tomato sauce my DW used to make. The tomato sauce is in all respects, a gravy.

I will continue to call tomato based sauces, sauce. It's the nomenclature I'm used to. It's what my family knows. After all, all gravies are some kind of sauce. But not all sauces are gravies.

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Old 12-10-2012, 01:52 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by GotGarlic View Post
I think standardizing terms and techniques is the reason Escoffier wrote his book and is why we have cooking schools now - they really haven't been around all that long. But their purpose is to standardize a curriculum so if a cook/chef goes from one place to another, whoever hires them can be confident they have a specific base of knowledge. That doesn't mean there won't always be exceptions and regional variations.

I guarantee you, though, if I were the editor of a cookbook or magazine, there would be standard definitions for it
The problem is that we're not discussing a definition or technique. We're talking about a name. Whether someone chooses to call it red gravy or tomato sauce or marinara is completely academic in my book.

Although I don't have a drop of Italian blood in me, I once spent the better part of three years eating Sunday dinners with an extended Italian family in Cicero, Illinois. In that entire time, not once did I ever hear it called "gravy." But if someone from a different region chooses to call it that, who am I to say they are wrong?

It's like arguing over Welsh Rarebit or Welsh Rabbit. Both names are commonly accepted and there is no consensus on which is correct. But either way, I know what you're referring to.
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