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Old 08-21-2015, 11:21 AM   #81
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A little OT, but can you freeze to death in 80F water?
Absolutely, you could die if you stayed in there long enough.
Any outside source that can lower your internal body temperature would be life threatening.
At 80 degrees F, it would take a long time for a normal healthy person.
But entirely possible death could occur.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:34 AM   #82
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A little OT, but can you freeze to death in 80F water?
No. You can succumb to hypothermia and drown though. You won't be frozen though....
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Old 08-21-2015, 12:10 PM   #83
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Heat up fast and cool off fast...........

(sigh) true, very true. consider a bucket with a large hole in it. toss it in the water, the big hole lets in the water fast and it semi-sinks. pull it up out of the water and the big hole lets the water run out fast.

however,,,, "thats what a good pan should do" - often call responsiveness - and as Willie said: "there's the rub"

despite the fact that the hole is big and water goes in fast and comes out fast, how big is the bucket? how much water has to come in or go out?

a two gallon bucket will weigh less faster than a six gallon bucket.

gallons = specific heat
size of hole = thermal conductivity

copper anyone?
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:12 PM   #84
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Many moons ago (late 1960's) I found an aluminum fry pan with a cover, along with a wooden handle and a set of aluminum triangle shaped pans in a Goodwill store. I think I may have paid the grand sum of $2.00 for all of the four pans. The fry pan had a small helper handle. I loved those pans. I used that fry pan more than my CI. Nothing ever stuck, chicken fried up to a beautiful golden color. And the three triangle shaped pans fit on one burner and were perfect for cooking more than one veggie on one burner. I would sell the blood of my first born to find an aluminum frying pan like that one today. So much lighter to carry to the sink for cleaning.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:32 PM   #85
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There are several engineers of DC who could chime in on the CI vs AL argument. Iron, cast or otherwise, is a relatively poor heat conductor, while aluminum is a great heat conductor. When aluminum is placed either on a hot surface, or heated by flame, it begins to absorb the heat energy, rapidly. Being a very good conductor, the heat spreads evenly through the metal more readily. The disadvantage of this is that when something cold, like a pork chop, or cut of beef is added to the pan/pot, the aluminum quickly gives up that heat, or cools rapidly. The fire must be of sufficient strength for the entire cooking time to generate enough heat in the pan to continue to produce enough heat transfer from the pan to the food.

Aluminum, just so's you knows, can be seasoned, just like cast iron, with a little fat. I have an aluminum pan that came with directions for seasoning the pan to make it non-stick.

Cast iron will cook less evenly, if not used properly. Where the flame, or heat source touches the metal, heat is absorbed, albeit more slowly than with aluminum. It takes more time for the heat to distribute itself evenly throughout the metal, hence the reason that the pan must be preheated over a period of time before cooking. When the food is placed into the pan, there is lots of thermal mass in the heavier pan, and yes, I know that the same weight of aluminum holds more heat than does iron. Suffice it to say that the cast iron pans of today are significantly heavier than are aluminum pans of the same diameter. The food begins absorbing heat from the pan, but it takes longer for the heat to transfer. The surface is sufficiently hot to cook the meat, and tends to maintain that temperature better when the food is place into it. That is why people talk about getting a better sear on meat. There is sufficient heat long enough to do the required work.

Thinner cast iron is notorious for having hot spots where the metal touches the heat source. This creates uneven cooking. Stainless steel suffers the same problem, it also being a poor heat conductor. That's why aluminum or copper are encapsulated, and put on the pan bottom, or in between the layers of SS, to allow the more heat conductive metals to distribute the heat evenly across the steel to eliminate hot spots.

Both aluminum and copper are not only great heat conductors, but are very good electrical conductors as well. You know those induction stoves, they work by creating moving magnetic fields do to a property called induction. And time you move a conductor through a magnetic field, or move a magnetic field across a conductor, it induces an electrical current through the conductor. As electrical current moves through a conductor, one of the results is that it creates heat that is proportional to the electrical resistance of that conductor. The resistance of both copper and aluminum is very low, and thus the currents (in this case, eddy currents) that are created in copper or aluminum cookware isn't sufficient to create enough heat for food preparation. Both cast iron, and steel are poor electrical conductors, though they are conductors. The eddy currents generated by the induction burner create enough heat to boil water in two minutes. By decreasing the current flow through the induction coils of the stove, the amount of induced heat is less. Though electrical-magnetic energy is used instead of fire with the pots and pans, the metal reacts instantly to a decrease of energy, just as it does with changing the heat of the flame from a gas stove.

So that's the medium-long answer to the difference between aluminum, copper, cast iron, and steel cookware. I hope what I just shared helps everyone understand their cookware better.

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Old 08-24-2015, 06:32 AM   #86
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The only reason I do not use cast iron are my arms. Can't lift heavy stuff anymore. Otherwise I'd still use my old grandma's pane, my mochas them stored somewhere. They are the best.


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Old 08-26-2015, 06:13 PM   #87
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Not all. Calphalon anodized is not coated with a non stick material. But its anodized and I am not certain what that means. They are not bright AL, but look almost black or dark gray.
If you ever watched them make scrambled eggs at Waffle House, they are using a AL bright uncoated pan. Nothing sticks.
I did notice in one WH, they were using a CI small fry pan for eggs.

Good discussion.
Anodizing is bonding aluminum oxide to the surface through an electrolytic bath, usually to make the surface harder than the bare aluminum. I was a machinist, and I used to make machine parts from anodized aluminum. For anodized surfaces, it took a lot of pressure for a drill or other cutting took to break through the anodized layer, but it was just soft aluminum underneath.

The anodized layer is extremely thin, often as little as 2 microns, but makes a significant difference in the surface hardness. It helps to make the surface corrosion resistant, which is why it is used in food service applications.
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:44 PM   #88
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...the CI vs AL argument.

engineers, physicists, rocket scientists, thermodynamisists, PhD's, high school drop outs, grade school drop outs, etc, can chime in until the cows come home.

different cooking tasks are best met by different techniques and - OMG - different cooking equipment - which includes "the same thing but made from something different"

you can drive from NY to LA in a Smart Car; you may find it a different experience than driving the same route in cushy luxury car.

both are possible - "best" is not applicable because that is a matter of taste, not fact or reality.

generations of people who actually cook as opposed to cook bloggers - have the opinion that cast iron does certain tasks better than other materials.

generations of people who actually cook as opposed to cook bloggers - have the opinion that Teflon does certain tasks better than other materials.

but as an example the "Teflon is killing you" sect will not accept that, for any reason, and you can talk until you keel over dead from orator exhaustion and none of them will be moved - despite the rather dire lack of any evidence from anywhere on the planet that someone died from eating food cooking on Teflon.

it's the same as the "What's the best knife?" deal.
best to do what?
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:09 PM   #89
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+1. What he said.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:56 PM   #90
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+2 here. So many choices. If you really need to, try out a couple of different pans and see which ones you like best. I have aluminum, teflon coated aluminum, stainless steel, cast iron, and carbon steel pans. Each has advantages and disadvantages. I use what I need for what I want to accomplish.

The only way to solve the dilemma is to cook, and see what you like best. No one can tell you which is best. You have to figure it out.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
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