Thinking about Cast Iron

[FrankZ]

A little OT, but can you freeze to death in 80F water?

No. You can succumb to hypothermia and drown though. You won't be frozen though....

 

[dcSaute]

Heat up fast and cool off fast...........

(sigh) true, very true. consider a bucket with a large hole in it. toss it in the water, the big hole lets in the water fast and it semi-sinks. pull it up out of the water and the big hole lets the water run out fast.

however,,,, "thats what a good pan should do" - often call responsiveness - and as Willie said: "there's the rub"

despite the fact that the hole is big and water goes in fast and comes out fast, how big is the bucket? how much water has to come in or go out?

a two gallon bucket will weigh less faster than a six gallon bucket.

gallons = specific heat
size of hole = thermal conductivity

copper anyone?

 

[Addie]

Many moons ago (late 1960's) I found an aluminum fry pan with a cover, along with a wooden handle and a set of aluminum triangle shaped pans in a Goodwill store. I think I may have paid the grand sum of $2.00 for all of the four pans. The fry pan had a small helper handle. I loved those pans. I used that fry pan more than my CI. Nothing ever stuck, chicken fried up to a beautiful golden color. And the three triangle shaped pans fit on one burner and were perfect for cooking more than one veggie on one burner. I would sell the blood of my first born to find an aluminum frying pan like that one today. So much lighter to carry to the sink for cleaning.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

There are several engineers of DC who could chime in on the CI vs AL argument. Iron, cast or otherwise, is a relatively poor heat conductor, while aluminum is a great heat conductor. When aluminum is placed either on a hot surface, or heated by flame, it begins to absorb the heat energy, rapidly. Being a very good conductor, the heat spreads evenly through the metal more readily. The disadvantage of this is that when something cold, like a pork chop, or cut of beef is added to the pan/pot, the aluminum quickly gives up that heat, or cools rapidly. The fire must be of sufficient strength for the entire cooking time to generate enough heat in the pan to continue to produce enough heat transfer from the pan to the food.

Aluminum, just so's you knows, can be seasoned, just like cast iron, with a little fat. I have an aluminum pan that came with directions for seasoning the pan to make it non-stick.

Cast iron will cook less evenly, if not used properly. Where the flame, or heat source touches the metal, heat is absorbed, albeit more slowly than with aluminum. It takes more time for the heat to distribute itself evenly throughout the metal, hence the reason that the pan must be preheated over a period of time before cooking. When the food is placed into the pan, there is lots of thermal mass in the heavier pan, and yes, I know that the same weight of aluminum holds more heat than does iron. Suffice it to say that the cast iron pans of today are significantly heavier than are aluminum pans of the same diameter. The food begins absorbing heat from the pan, but it takes longer for the heat to transfer. The surface is sufficiently hot to cook the meat, and tends to maintain that temperature better when the food is place into it. That is why people talk about getting a better sear on meat. There is sufficient heat long enough to do the required work.

Thinner cast iron is notorious for having hot spots where the metal touches the heat source. This creates uneven cooking. Stainless steel suffers the same problem, it also being a poor heat conductor. That's why aluminum or copper are encapsulated, and put on the pan bottom, or in between the layers of SS, to allow the more heat conductive metals to distribute the heat evenly across the steel to eliminate hot spots.

Both aluminum and copper are not only great heat conductors, but are very good electrical conductors as well. You know those induction stoves, they work by creating moving magnetic fields do to a property called induction. And time you move a conductor through a magnetic field, or move a magnetic field across a conductor, it induces an electrical current through the conductor. As electrical current moves through a conductor, one of the results is that it creates heat that is proportional to the electrical resistance of that conductor. The resistance of both copper and aluminum is very low, and thus the currents (in this case, eddy currents) that are created in copper or aluminum cookware isn't sufficient to create enough heat for food preparation. Both cast iron, and steel are poor electrical conductors, though they are conductors. The eddy currents generated by the induction burner create enough heat to boil water in two minutes. By decreasing the current flow through the induction coils of the stove, the amount of induced heat is less. Though electrical-magnetic energy is used instead of fire with the pots and pans, the metal reacts instantly to a decrease of energy, just as it does with changing the heat of the flame from a gas stove.

So that's the medium-long answer to the difference between aluminum, copper, cast iron, and steel cookware. I hope what I just shared helps everyone understand their cookware better.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[CharlieD]

The only reason I do not use cast iron are my arms. Can't lift heavy stuff anymore. Otherwise I'd still use my old grandma's pane, my mochas them stored somewhere. They are the best.


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[RPCookin]

Not all. Calphalon anodized is not coated with a non stick material. But its anodized and I am not certain what that means. They are not bright AL, but look almost black or dark gray.
If you ever watched them make scrambled eggs at Waffle House, they are using a AL bright uncoated pan. Nothing sticks.
I did notice in one WH, they were using a CI small fry pan for eggs.

Good discussion.

Anodizing is bonding aluminum oxide to the surface through an electrolytic bath, usually to make the surface harder than the bare aluminum. I was a machinist, and I used to make machine parts from anodized aluminum. For anodized surfaces, it took a lot of pressure for a drill or other cutting took to break through the anodized layer, but it was just soft aluminum underneath.

The anodized layer is extremely thin, often as little as 2 microns, but makes a significant difference in the surface hardness. It helps to make the surface corrosion resistant, which is why it is used in food service applications.

 

[dcSaute]

...the CI vs AL argument.

engineers, physicists, rocket scientists, thermodynamisists, PhD's, high school drop outs, grade school drop outs, etc, can chime in until the cows come home.

different cooking tasks are best met by different techniques and - OMG - different cooking equipment - which includes "the same thing but made from something different"

you can drive from NY to LA in a Smart Car; you may find it a different experience than driving the same route in cushy luxury car.

both are possible - "best" is not applicable because that is a matter of taste, not fact or reality.

generations of people who actually cook as opposed to cook bloggers - have the opinion that cast iron does certain tasks better than other materials.

generations of people who actually cook as opposed to cook bloggers - have the opinion that Teflon does certain tasks better than other materials.

but as an example the "Teflon is killing you" sect will not accept that, for any reason, and you can talk until you keel over dead from orator exhaustion and none of them will be moved - despite the rather dire lack of any evidence from anywhere on the planet that someone died from eating food cooking on Teflon.

it's the same as the "What's the best knife?" deal.
best to do what?

 

[Andy M.]

+1. What he said.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

+2 here. So many choices. If you really need to, try out a couple of different pans and see which ones you like best. I have aluminum, teflon coated aluminum, stainless steel, cast iron, and carbon steel pans. Each has advantages and disadvantages. I use what I need for what I want to accomplish.

The only way to solve the dilemma is to cook, and see what you like best. No one can tell you which is best. You have to figure it out.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[Kayelle]

What's the biggest negative for cast iron? It weighs a ton! I'm no longer willing to deal with that on a daily basis.

 

[CStanford]

When you're cooking food and you turn the dial on the heat, regardless of direction, you like for something to happen pretty quickly. If you're so good that you never need to adjust the fire under the pan on the fly then by all means use cast iron. If not, then...

I'll never understand its appeal. I've cooked in restaurants, one with 3 Michelin stars, and I never saw one single piece of cast iron being used. None. The only thing cast iron in these kitchens were the grates on the hobs. I'm sure it's used in some professional kitchens but I am at a loss for why. What a professional actually wants is the thinnest pan suitable for the technique. Thin means control. And by thin I mean the thickness of quality copper cookware and carbon steel pans -- somewhere around 2.5 to 3.0 mm thick. Changing heat on a CI pan is like turning an aircraft carrier.

 

[roadfix]

When you're cooking food and you turn the dial on the heat, regardless of direction, you like for something to happen pretty quickly. If you're so good that you never need to adjust the fire under the pan on the fly then by all means use cast iron. If not, then...

I'll never understand its appeal. I've cooked in restaurants, one with 3 Michelin stars, and I never saw one single piece of cast iron being used. None. The only thing cast iron in these kitchens were the grates on the hobs. I'm sure it's used in some professional kitchens but I am at a loss for why. What a professional actually wants is the thinnest pan suitable for the technique. Thin means control. And by thin I mean the thickness of quality copper cookware and carbon steel pans -- somewhere around 2.5 to 3.0 mm thick. Changing heat on a CI pan is like turning an aircraft carrier.

The problem is that most residential stoves put out nowhere near the BTU's that commercial stoves put out. The thinnest pan on a typical residential stove will not perform as effectively as it will on a commercial stove.
But a CI on an underpowered stove can cook rather effectively once it reaches temp.

 

[taxlady]

I cook a lot on enamelled cast iron. Sometimes it is helpful that the reaction time is slow.

 

[GotGarlic]

I cook a lot on enamelled cast iron. Sometimes it is helpful that the reaction time is slow.

Same here. I have enameled cast iron and bare cast iron. Both have their uses.

 

[CStanford]

The problem is that most residential stoves put out nowhere near the BTU's that commercial stoves put out. The thinnest pan on a typical residential stove will not perform as effectively as it will on a commercial stove.
But a CI on an underpowered stove can cook rather effectively once it reaches temp.

It's more about the reaction time when turning the heat down than up. A home stove is more than capable of keeping heat on a carbon steel or copper pan (especially the latter) for hours on end though they're rarely called on to do this.

 

[CraigC]

What would happen if you tried putting a thin pan on a jet cooker, raised the heat to what would get a CI pan screaming, white hot as required to properly blacken a piece of fish or a steak?

 

[CStanford]

Clean a well-seasoned and well-used bare CI pan with your normal protocol. Take a clean tri-ply stainless pan or whatever sort of stainless you have. Pour a large tumbler of clean tap water into both pans. Leave pans cold and let the water sit in each pan for an hour or so. Pour water out of each pan back into its own tumbler. Look closely at the water, smell the water.

Which glass of water would you rather drink?

Just sayin'

Don't even do this and put any heat on the pans. You'll wretch at one of the glasses of water if you do. I'll let you guess which one. If you're thinking the grease from bacon you fried five years ago is somehow helping your food taste better then you won't think so anymore.

 

[GotGarlic]

That's just silly. No one who cooks regularly with cast iron thinks the seasoning makes the food taste better. It makes the pan non-stick.

Cast iron has a lot of great uses in a home kitchen. What's appropriate in a commercial kitchen isn't relevant.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

Clean a well-seasoned and well-used bare CI pan with your normal protocol. Take a clean tri-ply stainless pan or whatever sort of stainless you have. Pour a large tumbler of clean tap water into both pans. Leave pans cold and let the water sit in each pan for an hour or so. Pour water out of each pan back into its own tumbler. Look closely at the water, smell the water.

Which glass of water would you rather drink?

Just sayin'

Don't even do this and put any heat on the pans. You'll wretch at one of the glasses of water if you do. I'll let you guess which one. If you're thinking the grease from bacon you fried five years ago is somehow helping your food taste better then you won't think so anymore.

The problem with mineral pans, or thin SS pans is that they develop hot spots where the flame touches the pan. Yes, they do heat more quickly than CI. That being said, thinner CI pans such as Griswold pans also had hot spots. Cast iron is a poor heat conductor. Thicker CI must be pre-heated long enough to let the heat spread more evenly in the pan. But the same is true of aluminum and copper pans, as they give up their heat as easily as they absorb it from the cooking source. When cold food is added, it quickly cools the metal of thinner pans, and the spots that are touching the heat source remain the hottest points. On a commercial stove, the flame pattern is designed to touch as much of the pan surface as possible. This just isn't the same with home burners. The other reason people love CI is that it is very durable, and easy to care for. It never needs to be tinned.

I have a high-carbon steel, flat-bottomed wok that is a great cooking tool, and is as non-stick as are my CI pans. But the wok suffers much more from hot spots that does my Wagner and Lodge CI pans. For light duty cooking, such as frying an egg, or making an English Muffin, my Griswold CI pans work very well. My SS pan with the encapsulated bottom is also a very useful pan, and is nearly as easy to care for as are my CI pans. But things stick to it more readily, even when I'm doing everything right.

Unless aluminum pans are seasoned properly, or coated in some kind of non-stick, be it ceramic, or teflon, foods stick, and react quickly to the metal, especially foods that are acidic or alkali.

The largest drawback to CI is its weight. I can't imagine trying to manhandle a CI pan to flip foods, using the pan. Plus, CI isn't constructed in the proper shapes to do such things.

The restaurant environment is set up for fast production. The home kitchen usually isn't. I can make things in my kitchen that would be difficult to replicate in a restaurant kitchen. But there are foods that a restaurant kitchen can do that I can't, as I don't have all of the same tools or appliances.

Comparing CI to other metals used in cooking is simply comparing apples to oranges. Each is good, but has different aspects that make it good.

Remember always that it is the heat that does the work. With a simple stick, strong twine, and a hearth, you can roast a perfect turkey. But it's more easily done in the oven, or on the grill as there is less mess to clean up, and less fussing you have to do with the bird. Pots, pans, burners, ovens, are simply tools that allow us to use the heat more efficiently. Arguing about which pan is the best is to me, just silly. Each kind has a function, and will cook food, albeit with a little different technique than the other.

Trust me, I can make really good food in most of the various types of pots and pans out there. And I can seriously destroy what could have been a great meal by inattention, or improper use of the pot or pan.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[Roll_Bones]

I prefer aluminum over CI any day. Of course I have been saying this over and over again.
But it is true about professionals using thinner pans than most people use at home.
I tend to lean on heavier AL as it reacts very quickly and prefer it over CI and SS. In fact I don't own a single SS fry/saute pan.