Thinking about Cast Iron

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The problem with mineral pans, or thin SS pans is that they develop hot spots where the flame touches the pan. Yes, they do heat more quickly than CI. That being said, thinner CI pans such as Griswold pans also had hot spots. Cast iron is a poor heat conductor. Thicker CI must be pre-heated long enough to let the heat spread more evenly in the pan. But the same is true of aluminum and copper pans, as they give up their heat as easily as they absorb it from the cooking source. When cold food is added, it quickly cools the metal of thinner pans, and the spots that are touching the heat source remain the hottest points. On a commercial stove, the flame pattern is designed to touch as much of the pan surface as possible. This just isn't the same with home burners. The other reason people love CI is that it is very durable, and easy to care for. It never needs to be tinned.

I have a high-carbon steel, flat-bottomed wok that is a great cooking tool, and is as non-stick as are my CI pans. But the wok suffers much more from hot spots that does my Wagner and Lodge CI pans. For light duty cooking, such as frying an egg, or making an English Muffin, my Griswold CI pans work very well. My SS pan with the encapsulated bottom is also a very useful pan, and is nearly as easy to care for as are my CI pans. But things stick to it more readily, even when I'm doing everything right.

Unless aluminum pans are seasoned properly, or coated in some kind of non-stick, be it ceramic, or teflon, foods stick, and react quickly to the metal, especially foods that are acidic or alkali.

The largest drawback to CI is its weight. I can't imagine trying to manhandle a CI pan to flip foods, using the pan. Plus, CI isn't constructed in the proper shapes to do such things.

The restaurant environment is set up for fast production. The home kitchen usually isn't. I can make things in my kitchen that would be difficult to replicate in a restaurant kitchen. But there are foods that a restaurant kitchen can do that I can't, as I don't have all of the same tools or appliances.

Comparing CI to other metals used in cooking is simply comparing apples to oranges. Each is good, but has different aspects that make it good.

Remember always that it is the heat that does the work. With a simple stick, strong twine, and a hearth, you can roast a perfect turkey. But it's more easily done in the oven, or on the grill as there is less mess to clean up, and less fussing you have to do with the bird. Pots, pans, burners, ovens, are simply tools that allow us to use the heat more efficiently. Arguing about which pan is the best is to me, just silly. Each kind has a function, and will cook food, albeit with a little different technique than the other.

Trust me, I can make really good food in most of the various types of pots and pans out there. And I can seriously destroy what could have been a great meal by inattention, or improper use of the pot or pan.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

All pans are hot right under the flame. Every single one regardless of the quality of the hob. It's simple physics. Moreover, that's where you cook the food. If that spot is too hot, you turn the flame down. You don't manage the process by worrying about what the temp is out near the edge. You're unlikely to ruin product out there, if it's even out there in the first place (more on that below).

Most every home chef keeps food in the pan too long, usually at too low a temp, and crowds the pan instead of cooking the food in series. If I'm doing a chicken saute' with eight pieces, at the browning step I'm putting two pieces in a ten or eleven inch skillet at a time and that's it. They'll all go back in the pan later with the liquid. I couldn't care less what the temp of the pan is at the eight or nine inch diameter mark. There's no real reason to. You can cook the product in series faster than you can by throwing three, four, or five pieces in. And you can cook it perfectly -- you have fewer items in the pan to watch and they're sitting right in the middle of the pan over that gorgeous blue flame.

Try it. Promise you'll like it. It renders nine-tenths of the stuff people worry and pontificate about totally moot.
 
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I prefer aluminum over CI any day. Of course I have been saying this over and over again.
But it is true about professionals using thinner pans than most people use at home.
I tend to lean on heavier AL as it reacts very quickly and prefer it over CI and SS. In fact I don't own a single SS fry/saute pan.

Aluminum cooks damned well. It can lend an off flavor and color to sauces and pan reductions though. For straight browning, nothing really beats it.
 
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It makes the pan nonstick alright but at a cost. Do the water test.

I don't care to, thank you. Any residue that might be in the pan was pretty delicious when I ate the meal it came from, so I'm not concerned about it being incorporated into the next savory thing I make. That's why I said it was a silly thing to suggest.

Many of us here are pretty experienced home cooks and don't really need instruction on how to use and care for our equipment. And I went to culinary school for a couple of months (had to withdraw for medical reasons) so I'm familiar with the needs of a restaurant kitchen.
 
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I use dish soap all the time and have never had a problem.
After washing wipe dry with a towel, no problem.

I use canola stray all the time; every so often fry fish
using canola or peanut oil and the skillets look great.
 
I have been cautious about over-crowding the pan when browning, for many, many years. A friend of mine is a chef. When he helped me in the kitchen, he put loads more chunks of meat on the pan than I ever would. He also had the heat on my electric stove turned to max and it was faster than what I was used to. BTW, with an electric stove, most of my pots and pans are completely sitting on the heating element. It isn't hotter in the centre. One of the large burners has a hot spot near the edge at the 2 o'clock position.
 
If you have a defective burner then you have to work around that. What would you do if you got a new stove? Otherwise, the food gets cooked in the strike zone not high and outside. We're trying to hit a home run here not foul one off behind the plate.
 
I don't care to, thank you. Any residue that might be in the pan was pretty delicious when I ate the meal it came from, so I'm not concerned about it being incorporated into the next savory thing I make. That's why I said it was a silly thing to suggest.

Many of us here are pretty experienced home cooks and don't really need instruction on how to use and care for our equipment. And I went to culinary school for a couple of months (had to withdraw for medical reasons) so I'm familiar with the needs of a restaurant kitchen.

Oh well, it's still there as sure as the sun rises in the east. I'm not suggesting a way to care for the equipment because there is virtually nothing you can do to prevent this phenomenon, mine is just a test to show you what CI throws off every time you cook in it. This is the source of flavor ghosting and a house flavor. The pan remembers everything you cook in it and serves it back to you. Carbon steel does it too, but to a much, much smaller degree.
 
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If you have a defective burner then you have to work around that. What would you do if you got a new stove? Otherwise, the food gets cooked in the strike zone not high and outside. We're trying to hit a home run here not foul one off behind the plate.
The hot spot isn't that bad. I turn the pot. Sometimes I use it to advantage. It's easy to work around, just like you work with your hot spot in the middle of your pans. ;)

And when I use CI and turn the pot, it really makes no difference, since the CI heats and cools more slowly.
 
Oh well, people talk about hot spots like something's wrong. Nothing is wrong, that's where the food goes! Don't put it around the outside of the pan like petals on daisy. It looks as stupid as it is.

If through some quirk of material physics some isolated spot near the outside of the pan manages to get hotter than where the flame is then that's a pan you should unload. I've personally never seen it. Ever. But I suppose it could happen.

Happy Cooking. Heat is good!

Cheers,

Pope Charlie
 
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Oh well, people talk about hot spots like something's wrong. Nothing is wrong, that's where the food goes! Don't put it around the outside of the pan like petals on daisy. It looks as stupid as it is.

If through some quirk of material physics some isolated spot near the outside of the pan manages to get hotter than where the flame is then that's a pan you should unload. I've personally never seen it. Ever. But I suppose it could happen.

Happy Cooking. Heat is good!

Cheers,

Pope Charlie
My first thought was that it was the pan. Then I remembered that it was always in the same place relative to the stove and on every pot. No flame on my electric stove, when things are working right. :ermm: :LOL:
 
My whole reason for introducing the ideas of hot spots was to show that for many recipes, hot spots are not good. If you want to gently simmer a rich sauce or gravy, and you can't be watching the pot constantly because there are other things to be done, hot spots can cause the sauce or gravy to burn at just that spot, ruining the whole pot. Also, when searing a large chunk of flat meat, such as a porterhouse, hot spots can cause a portion of the meat to overcook, or even scorch before the rest of the meat is cooked to the desired temp. It has nothing to do with placing your food where the flame isn't, such as the outside rim of the pan.

With my gas stove, the flame comes out the side of the burner and bends upwards in a ring. It then travels to the outside of the pan, and up the sides. That's simple physics. Hot air rises and will continue to do so until it escapes its confines, i.e., the middle of the pan. Hence, the center of the pan is cooler than where the flame first touches the pan, and then travels outwards. There are devices that help spread the heat across the whole pan or pot bottom. These are known as diffusers, and help eliminate hot spots to promote more even temperatures along the entire cooking surface, thereby cooking the food more evenly.

The idea that hot spots are good is absurd. Hot spots make cooking things like rice, beans, sauces, flat pieces of meat, stews, etc. difficult. Ever find a bit of scorched food in the bottom of a chili pot? That scorched flavor will permeate the whole of the product, making it less desirable, or even, if scorched enough, inedible.

As for your statement about putting foods around the outside of a pan like the petals of a daisy, and calling that stupid, that is somewhat condescending, and is at times, just plain wrong. With my wok, I regularly use the hot spot, the very flat, and center part of the pan, to quickly stir-fry the food, moving it to the cooler slopes of the sides, where the heat is much milder and won't overcook the food, but will still keep it warm, as I add more ingredients to the recipe. I have been known to do such things by keeping the flame lower, and using the pan sides of my 11 in CI pans to do the same thing.

Ever try to cook English Muffins in a dry pan, with hot spots? It doesn't work well, same with pizza.

You may know something about the type/style of cooking that you do. But there are so many techniques out there that you don't have a prayer at knowing them all. I invite you to discuss your opinions intelligently, giving, and taking from the discussion. That's why we discuss things, to help each other, and to learn from each other. But I promise you, that if you try to force your opinions and ideas upon everyone, and not listen to the responses, people will stop discussing things. I, for one, won't be dictated to. I have engineering knowledge, a scientific background, 40 years of cooking experience, and an intense desire to know how, and why things work. I know a lot about cooking, a significant amount about physical properties of materials, and how food reacts, and understand that there are people in this forum that know significantly more than I do. I am constantly learning new things here, and sharing things that I learn with others.

Remember, there is never a reason to call someone else's idea stupid. The name of this site is DiscussCooking, not - I am the only good cook on the site. You may disagree with something that someone has said. When that happens, it is your responsibility to argue your viewpoint, politely, with substantive fact to back up your ideas. There may even be times when you are absolutely correct, but can not convince someone else. Then, you just politely walk away. Where there is contention, no one learns anything, and pride rules.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 
My whole reason for introducing the ideas of hot spots was to show that for many recipes, hot spots are not good. If you want to gently simmer a rich sauce or gravy, and you can't be watching the pot constantly because there are other things to be done, hot spots can cause the sauce or gravy to burn at just that spot, ruining the whole pot. Also, when searing a large chunk of flat meat, such as a porterhouse, hot spots can cause a portion of the meat to overcook, or even scorch before the rest of the meat is cooked to the desired temp. It has nothing to do with placing your food where the flame isn't, such as the outside rim of the pan.

With my gas stove, the flame comes out the side of the burner and bends upwards in a ring. It then travels to the outside of the pan, and up the sides. That's simple physics. Hot air rises and will continue to do so until it escapes its confines, i.e., the middle of the pan. Hence, the center of the pan is cooler than where the flame first touches the pan, and then travels outwards. There are devices that help spread the heat across the whole pan or pot bottom. These are known as diffusers, and help eliminate hot spots to promote more even temperatures along the entire cooking surface, thereby cooking the food more evenly.

The idea that hot spots are good is absurd. Hot spots make cooking things like rice, beans, sauces, flat pieces of meat, stews, etc. difficult. Ever find a bit of scorched food in the bottom of a chili pot? That scorched flavor will permeate the whole of the product, making it less desirable, or even, if scorched enough, inedible.

As for your statement about putting foods around the outside of a pan like the petals of a daisy, and calling that stupid, that is somewhat condescending, and is at times, just plain wrong. With my wok, I regularly use the hot spot, the very flat, and center part of the pan, to quickly stir-fry the food, moving it to the cooler slopes of the sides, where the heat is much milder and won't overcook the food, but will still keep it warm, as I add more ingredients to the recipe. I have been known to do such things by keeping the flame lower, and using the pan sides of my 11 in CI pans to do the same thing.

Ever try to cook English Muffins in a dry pan, with hot spots? It doesn't work well, same with pizza.

You may know something about the type/style of cooking that you do. But there are so many techniques out there that you don't have a prayer at knowing them all. I invite you to discuss your opinions intelligently, giving, and taking from the discussion. That's why we discuss things, to help each other, and to learn from each other. But I promise you, that if you try to force your opinions and ideas upon everyone, and not listen to the responses, people will stop discussing things. I, for one, won't be dictated to. I have engineering knowledge, a scientific background, 40 years of cooking experience, and an intense desire to know how, and why things work. I know a lot about cooking, a significant amount about physical properties of materials, and how food reacts, and understand that there are people in this forum that know significantly more than I do. I am constantly learning new things here, and sharing things that I learn with others.

Remember, there is never a reason to call someone else's idea stupid. The name of this site is DiscussCooking, not - I am the only good cook on the site. You may disagree with something that someone has said. When that happens, it is your responsibility to argue your viewpoint, politely, with substantive fact to back up your ideas. There may even be times when you are absolutely correct, but can not convince someone else. Then, you just politely walk away. Where there is contention, no one learns anything, and pride rules.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

+1. Eloquently stated, as usual, Chief :)
 
+2 Chief. Besides anyone who watches or has watched Hell's Kitchen, knows that the cooks in these high end type restaurants, only need to concentrate on one, maybe two items, not the whole meal as we home cooks have to. Besides, cooking is supposed to be enjoyable, not something to deal with under the relentless "whip" of some arrogant head chef, trying to win those "stars". Michelin Stars mean buffalo chips to me.;)
 
Cook in middle of the pan where the bloody heat is, put a couple products down in the pan, cook product on high(er) heat than you may be used to (not always, but generally), remove product to warm platter, cook next round.

If you feel like it, cook in two 10" pans simultaneously but always, always cook in the middle of the pan. Don't put product in a circle around the outer diameter of the pan where it bakes off the side of the pan and/or gets steamed on the side closest to the edge of the pan. This can give the product a tough, chewy side. If you just can't resist this then make sure you use a slope-sided skillet, the more severe the slope the better.

Promise it'll work.
 
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Cook in middle of the pan where the bloody heat is, put a couple products down in the pan, cook product on high(er) heat than you may be used to (not always, but generally), remove product to warm platter, cook next round.

If you feel like it, cook in two 10" pans simultaneously but always, always cook in the middle of the pan. Don't put product in a circle around the outer diameter of the pan where it bakes off the side of the pan and/or gets steamed on the side closest to the edge of the pan. This can give the product a tough, chewy side. If you just can't resist this then make sure you use a slope-sided skillet, the more severe the slope the better.

Promise it'll work.

Okay. We get the message. You just seem hell bent on convincing everyone that your knowledge is more superior to every member of this forum. We are home cooks, not restaurant chefs with so many Michelin Stars. The "Gee Mom/Dad, that meal was great" is what makes our day. We don't expect anyone to send back a note with a generous tip to the kitchen for the cook on how great the meal was.

We have the appliances and equipment that we can afford. Most of us are using what we bought or received as gifts when we were first starting out as cooks or newlyweds. Over the years we may replace some of those appliances or equipment as our income increases. We seek the advice of friends on what to purchase. Some of us even have our grandparents kitchen equipment that has been passed down. I still have my grandmother's wire pastry blender. A grandmother's cast iron pan is most likely the most treasured item in a kitchen. Go down south to any local restaurant that is known for their fried chicken. You most likely will find that they make it in an old cast iron pan.

I no longer have my cast iron pan. Only because it became too heavy for my arthritic hands to pick up. It was my grandmother's. My daughter now has it. Fourth generation. The majority of cast iron pans found in today's home kitchen have a history. And they are dearly loved. Happy memories are always there when those pans hit the stove top! :angel:
 
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Cook in middle of the pan where the bloody heat is, put a couple products down in the pan, cook product on high(er) heat than you may be used to (not always, but generally), remove product to warm platter, cook next round.

If you feel like it, cook in two 10" pans simultaneously but always, always cook in the middle of the pan. Don't put product in a circle around the outer diameter of the pan where it bakes off the side of the pan and/or gets steamed on the side closest to the edge of the pan. This can give the product a tough, chewy side. If you just can't resist this then make sure you use a slope-sided skillet, the more severe the slope the better.

Promise it'll work.
This is not even true on an electric range. (Let's just forget the one element on my stove that has a hot spot, I still have three elements that work as expected.) The entire bottom of my pans sit on the heating element. The middle is no hotter than the edges.
 
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