Thinking about Cast Iron

[Roll_Bones]

Aluminum cooks damned well. It can lend an off flavor and color to sauces and pan reductions though. For straight browning, nothing really beats it.

In what way can AL add or subtract and flavor?

Oh well, people talk about hot spots like something's wrong. Nothing is wrong, that's where the food goes! Don't put it around the outside of the pan like petals on daisy. It looks as stupid as it is.

If through some quirk of material physics some isolated spot near the outside of the pan manages to get hotter than where the flame is then that's a pan you should unload. I've personally never seen it. Ever. But I suppose it could happen.

Happy Cooking. Heat is good!

Cheers,

Pope Charlie

There is a school of thought regarding electric burners. One school of thought is if its bad in any way or manner it will not work at all.
Meaning, these hot spots are actually where the pan and the burner make the very best contact. I was and still do believe that a electric burner cannot be partially good. It either heats up or it doesn't.
But:

Not so long ago, I notice my electric oven was not getting up to temperature. Guess what? It was the element.
So evidently, current is able to pass through the element in a reduced or overly high fashion should the element/burner still be intact.
Reason: Its not a light bulb and can still partially allow current to flow with no regard to the wattage or the voltage provided the electrical path is still present.
I learned a lesson on the oven element. But it was bad and could not be use to cook anything. It could have been used to keep something warm though.

This is not even true on an electric range. (Let's just forget the one element on my stove that has a hot spot, I still have three elements that work as expected.) The entire bottom of my pans sit on the heating element. The middle is no hotter than the edges.

I have an experiment, if you're up for it. Move the burner that has a hot spot to another location on the range top. Lets see if this hot spot follows the burner or is it possibly not a burner issue?
I am very curious as to your findings!
Should this hot spot follow the burner, I would be quite surprised.

 

[dcSaute]

?In what way can AL add or subtract and flavor?

depends on exactly what one means by "aluminum pan"

a naked aluminum pan can, according to some taste buds, impart a metallic twang to the food - especially acidic stuff cooked for longer than fried eggs, for example.
in a similar vein, some taste buds mention they can taste a metallic flavor from cooking in cast iron.

anodized aluminum or aluminum with non-stick coating(s) is not apt to impart any taste as the aluminum metal (which btw is very reactive) is 'sealed' from direct contact with the food. methinks the same line of sealed thought applies to well seasoned cast iron.

it's a bit like baking powder - there are multiple chemical approaches to making a double acting baking powder. one is aluminum salt based. and, my taste buds pick up on that 'off flavor' if there is enough baking powder in the recipe. so funny me, I use Rumford (others exist) - which is Al free and doesn't impart the twang in my biscuits....

 

[taxlady]

...

I have an experiment, if you're up for it. Move the burner that has a hot spot to another location on the range top. Lets see if this hot spot follows the burner or is it possibly not a burner issue?
I am very curious as to your findings!
Should this hot spot follow the burner, I would be quite surprised.

Good idea, but I think it's the element. Let's see if I remember to do it.

 

[Roll_Bones]

?In what way can AL add or subtract and flavor?

depends on exactly what one means by "aluminum pan"

a naked aluminum pan can, according to some taste buds, impart a metallic twang to the food - especially acidic stuff cooked for longer than fried eggs, for example.
in a similar vein, some taste buds mention they can taste a metallic flavor from cooking in cast iron.

anodized aluminum or aluminum with non-stick coating(s) is not apt to impart any taste as the aluminum metal (which btw is very reactive) is 'sealed' from direct contact with the food. methinks the same line of sealed thought applies to well seasoned cast iron.

it's a bit like baking powder - there are multiple chemical approaches to making a double acting baking powder. one is aluminum salt based. and, my taste buds pick up on that 'off flavor' if there is enough baking powder in the recipe. so funny me, I use Rumford (others exist) - which is Al free and doesn't impart the twang in my biscuits....

Thank you very much. I must not have good taste buds as i have never noticed. BTW, I use anodized and bright aluminum. Can't tell any difference. But my buds are not what they used to be.

Good idea, but I think it's the element. Let's see if I remember to do it.

I am really interested in your findings. I hope you will try it and post the results.

 

[CStanford]

In what way can AL add or subtract and flavor?



There is a school of thought regarding electric burners. One school of thought is if its bad in any way or manner it will not work at all.
Meaning, these hot spots are actually where the pan and the burner make the very best contact. I was and still do believe that a electric burner cannot be partially good. It either heats up or it doesn't.
But:

Not so long ago, I notice my electric oven was not getting up to temperature. Guess what? It was the element.
So evidently, current is able to pass through the element in a reduced or overly high fashion should the element/burner still be intact.
Reason: Its not a light bulb and can still partially allow current to flow with no regard to the wattage or the voltage provided the electrical path is still present.
I learned a lesson on the oven element. But it was bad and could not be use to cook anything. It could have been used to keep something warm though.



I have an experiment, if you're up for it. Move the burner that has a hot spot to another location on the range top. Lets see if this hot spot follows the burner or is it possibly not a burner issue?
I am very curious as to your findings!
Should this hot spot follow the burner, I would be quite surprised.

It's all out the window when it comes to electric ranges. These are just tolerated, rarely preferred.

 

[CStanford]

This is not even true on an electric range. (Let's just forget the one element on my stove that has a hot spot, I still have three elements that work as expected.) The entire bottom of my pans sit on the heating element. The middle is no hotter than the edges.

Well, I bet it is but the difference might not be so drastic as a gas range. What, then, are we to make of this? Maybe the electric range should be the preferred medium? I wonder why that hasn't happened.

 

[taxlady]

Well, I bet it is but the difference might not be so drastic as a gas range. What, then, are we to make of this? Maybe the electric range should be the preferred medium? I wonder why that hasn't happened.

Heck no, if I had a gas connection at my house, I would have a gas range. I'm just saying that cooking on electric is different from cooking with gas. There are things one needs to do differently depending on which one is using. I'm sure there are even differences between cooking on electric rings and glass top electric stoves. A friend likes electric because she says it's more like cooking on a wood stove.

 

[CStanford]

Heck no, if I had a gas connection at my house, I would have a gas range. I'm just saying that cooking on electric is different from cooking with gas. There are things one needs to do differently depending on which one is using. I'm sure there are even differences between cooking on electric rings and glass top electric stoves. A friend likes electric because she says it's more like cooking on a wood stove.

Totally agree. If you have electric and can match up pan size to the element's size then it might not be a totally bad experience.

 

[dcSaute]

I survived 18 years of electric cooking, and I didn't even get a t-shirt.

electric coils do not respond as quickly as turning the knob on a gas cooktop. that's really not hard to understand. that heating up a pan takes longer on electric coils vs gas flame, yeah - that's true. deal with it.

the preference for one cooking vessel material vs. another based on how quickly they heat up is, ah.... uhhmmmm.... something. not sure what. electric or gas or coal or kerosene or wood fire or induction, , , put the blinking pan on the heat at let it come up to temperature and YES! cast iron might take 2-3 minutes more than aluminum and if that is such a critical issue, one might want to re-examine one's starvation diet plan which leads to the inability to tolerate 2-3 minute delays in eating.

I have some half century+ old Revere Ware, some decades old thick thick aluminum stuff, some century+ old cast iron, and some 3mm thick stainless lined copper. when I need to cook something it goes on the gas burner, the burner gets lit and runs on low, the pan gets hot. sometimes it takes me longer to dice/slice (whatever) and I have to take the pan off the heat before I'm ready to start a saute / fry / go cooking crazy.

so all the 'it's faster / it's slower' stuff is actually not of any importance except to the cook who is unaware they want to cook something 5 minutes from now.

hot spots on electric coils exist - I've seen it. if you've got 7-15 year old electric coils, turn it on high and observe the color brightness of the coil. some spots are cooler and hence darker. no big discovery there.

but hot spots / burner size matching only comes into play when using high heat _and_ thin, poor conductor materials. ye olde' thin stainless - including copper bottom RevereWare is a prime example. you get the pan hot, you reduce the heat setting to match the task, heat flows, nothing burns. it's what heat does.

 

[Sir_Loin_of_Beef]

And cast iron is thinking about you, too.

 

[Addie]

I survived 18 years of electric cooking, and I didn't even get a t-shirt.

electric coils do not respond as quickly as turning the knob on a gas cooktop. that's really not hard to understand. that heating up a pan takes longer on electric coils vs gas flame, yeah - that's true. deal with it.

the preference for one cooking vessel material vs. another based on how quickly they heat up is, ah.... uhhmmmm.... something. not sure what. electric or gas or coal or kerosene or wood fire or induction, , , put the blinking pan on the heat at let it come up to temperature and YES! cast iron might take 2-3 minutes more than aluminum and if that is such a critical issue, one might want to re-examine one's starvation diet plan which leads to the inability to tolerate 2-3 minute delays in eating.

I have some half century+ old Revere Ware, some decades old thick thick aluminum stuff, some century+ old cast iron, and some 3mm thick stainless lined copper. when I need to cook something it goes on the gas burner, the burner gets lit and runs on low, the pan gets hot. sometimes it takes me longer to dice/slice (whatever) and I have to take the pan off the heat before I'm ready to start a saute / fry / go cooking crazy.
so all the 'it's faster / it's slower' stuff is actually not of any importance except to the cook who is unaware they want to cook something 5 minutes from now.

hot spots on electric coils exist - I've seen it. if you've got 7-15 year old electric coils, turn it on high and observe the color brightness of the coil. some spots are cooler and hence darker. no big discovery there.

but hot spots / burner size matching only comes into play when using high heat _and_ thin, poor conductor materials. ye olde' thin stainless - including copper bottom RevereWare is a prime example. you get the pan hot, you reduce the heat setting to match the task, heat flows, nothing burns. it's what heat does.

My mother taught me to cook on a wood burning stove. Place more wood in the stove and take the lid off and place the pan right over the fire. Direct heat. She also cooked with some very thin aluminum pots from the depression days. The kind that the man that came around and repaired any pots with a washer and screw. When she got a gas stove, she still have the same pans. My sister and I bought her a new set. She had a difficult time adjusting to the heat of the gas and the thickness of her pans that took up longer to heat. But she still managed to make some fantastic meals. I still say it is the cook, not the pan or stove, or even the type of heat that determines the quality of a meal.

 

[Andy M.]

All of the above serves to make the point that tools don't make the cook. If they did, I'd be a better cook.

If you've cooked on a gas stove all your life and have to switch to an electric stove, You'll adapt. If you're used to cast iron and switch to carbon steel or non-stick coated, you'll adapt. People have been adapting for quite a long time. It's not that hard.

 

[taxlady]

All of the above serves to make the point that tools don't make the cook. If they did, I'd be a better cook.

If you've cooked on a gas stove all your life and have to switch to an electric stove, You'll adapt. If you're used to cast iron and switch to carbon steel or non-stick coated, you'll adapt. People have been adapting for quite a long time. It's not that hard.

True, but you might burn a meal or two while learning the new tools.

 

[dcSaute]

he who does not learn from experience will burn food forever.

 

[Zagut]

he who does not learn from experience will burn food forever.

So I'm damned to burn't food forever?

Andy get's it. Adapt.

Food + Heat = Cooking.

The results are on the chef/cook.

10 chefs = 11 ways to fix it.

 

[CStanford]

Preaching to the choir. I have RA in both hands and use a lot of Revere Ware and feel hampered not one bit. Pre-RA and in kitchens I worked never saw a piece of bare cast iron and not all that much enameled cast iron. Schooled and apprenticed in Europe.

 

[roadfix]

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[GotGarlic]

Preaching to the choir. I have RA in both hands and use a lot of Revere Ware and feel hampered not one bit. Pre-RA and in kitchens I worked never saw a piece of bare cast iron and not all that much enameled cast iron. Schooled and apprenticed in Europe.

Don't you think you've gone on enough about this? If you don't want to use cast iron, then fine - don't. But this insistence that your way is the only way shows a dogmatic lack of curiosity and openness to new ideas, not a superiority of training.

 

[Addie]

Don't you think you've gone on enough about this? If you don't want to use cast iron, then fine - don't. But this insistence that your way is the only way shows a dogmatic lack of curiosity and openness to new ideas, not a superiority of training.

Thank you. I think everything that could be said, has been. Let's move on. He doesn't like CI, most of the members here do. "Nuf said.

 

[RPCookin]

Back to the topic:

I may have posted this already but it's buried back in the clutter. I own 3 pieces of cast iron cookware - 2 dutch ovens, one 5 quart and one 9 quart, both enameled; and the reversible griddle/grillpan that is part of my new GE gas range. I've only cooked on gas for the last 3½ years of my 68, and my mother started me learning the kitchen little by little from the time I was about 10.

The grill pan is nicely seasoned and is great to cook with, but it does take at least 10 minutes to preheat when using the grill side because you want it smoking hot for proper sear and grill marks. Even then it's not going to sear like an open flame grill will, but for me that isn't an issue, since I don't particularly care for my steaks and chops to be charred.

I use the two dutch ovens for all sorts of foods, from soups and stews to braised short ribs and country style ribs. I use them both on top of the stove and in the oven and they are fantastic and turn out great dishes.

I also have 3 saute/frying pans (8", 12" and 14"), Bakers and Chefs brand, heavy aluminum with nonstick coating and I love all three. I also have 2 stainless frying pans, a clad Kitchen Aid 10" and a disk bottom Simply Calphalon chicken fryer, 12" x 3" deep. I know how to make every one of them work to cook the foods I want to prepare in them. Yes, it's true that they take different approaches to accomplish the tasks that I assign to them, but that's good, because different foods often have different needs.

All of this squabbling over what works best is pretty senseless. One thing I've learned from hanging around this place is that there are different ways to get the job done, and people's preferences vary, sometimes considerably. For some things there certainly are right and wrong ways to prepare them, but for most there are just different approaches all of which work. We all have different equipment to do the work, and we have different tastes, and differing levels of training, but in the end we are all here because we are passionate about cooking.

We need to keep focused on our commonality while embracing the differences. After all, it's discussing those differences that aid in learning. This would be a pretty boring forum if we all thought and cooked alike. Not all of us are going to change our preferred methods just because another says their method is better. What's best for one individual isn't necessarily better for others. They may have different heat sources, different cookware, and different tastes for the food they prepare. Different kitchen education from different regions and generations can be a heavy influence.

Let's all just have fun with cooking, whether it's a vocation or avocation, and enjoy the diversity.